OK, so…you have a friend who has some unidentified Mauriats, you once tried a RAW in a shop – and you’ve read some stuff on the internet about the M2. And you don’t seem to have had any experience with them as regards build quality.I don't own any of the three but have played several different Mauriats models on a number of occasions (a friend of mine is one of their "endorsers" but also only gigs with his "vintage" horns and not the Mauriat). I've never played a Bauhaus. I've tried a TJ RAW as well as a number of other horns when last at Sax UK's London shop. They are certainly OK horns, but I don't think they are necessarily better than the OP's Yani. It is a presumption on my part that the Bauhaus will be somewhat similar to a Mauriat or TJ, and that seems to be the way they are considered (certainly nothing better). You also mention comparing to a Ref 54, which certainly isn't a vintage horn either but an attempt at retro and also very expensive. I just frankly don't think you're helping the OP by recommending they buy a new VW bug when they are looking for something like a classic Morgan and already own a MX5.
At some point we have to give other players the respect of knowing what they want and just trying to help them achieve their goals. You, I, and others have had our flings with various horns and come to our own conclusions. Here's a question for you: Would you have been a better player or able to decide on the horn(s) that are right for you without having owned and played a variety of horns? Do you wish you didn't experience those other horns and that you immediately had whatever horn you play now? (not taking into account the $$).
Interesting comments. I find it funny that you'd think that bent lkeycups, off center keycups, etc came out of the factory like that, however (?) We are talking about a 40-50+ year old instrument; even if the finish is in good shape, to ascertain that what you had in your hands was literally 'as it was when new' is a stretch. If someone told me "this is just as it was when it was brand new" - on a 50- year old horn....I would find that claim very specious. We can never know this. Even if it was a supposed 'closet queen'.I'm not saying that an Indiana is a bad sax. But I would not say an Indiana is a vintage horn unless you get your hands on one of the late HC Comm I that were sold and stamped as an Indiana. I don't use the word vintage when I'm talking about saxes. To say an Indiana is a vintage sax is strange for me. "Vintage" is something special for me. But I've been seen that it's often used in USA and UK.
Many "The Indiana by Martin" were made through the years. It was a horn meant for schools, marching bands ..... and they made lots of Indianas. The bent key cups, bent keys, off-center keycups. ..... was something the should have been taking care of at Martin in Elkhart back then.
I actually sorta agree with this. I mean, the thread isn't entitled "what modern horn has that vintage vibe ?"I just frankly don't think you're helping the OP by recommending they buy a new VW bug when they are looking for something like a classic Morgan and already own a MX5.
Really ? Interesting. You are a far more advanced player than I, but I have not in my memory played a well set-up S20 of any era which wasn't quite straight-arrow, intonationally...and far more mouthpiece friendly than a 10M.intonation issues?
Some do, the vast majority don't.I don't actually buy the concept of a "vintage sound" - I think there are some modern horns that have very similar "sounds" to some vintage instruments.
Cool - now let's see you mangle the semantics as you try to match the statement above with your one from another thread below.Seems like it'd just be a distraction more than anything else to start trying contemporary horns if one's desire is to dip their toes into vintage.
I agree on most of what you are writng. I have a -58 Indiana alto as well. So I know they are good saxes. Maybe it just my -59 was a lemon? But I don't say my Inndiana is a vintage sax. Just a very, very good sax.Interesting comments. I find it funny that you'd think that bent lkeycups, off center keycups, etc came out of the factory like that, however (?) We are talking about a 40-50+ year old instrument; even if the finish is in good shape, to ascertain that what you had in your hands was literally 'as it was when new' is a stretch. If someone told me "this is just as it was when it was brand new" - on a 50- year old horn....I would find that claim very specious. We can never know this. Even if it was a supposed 'closet queen'.
I, for example, have refurbed plenty of Indianas which looked like they had been through two wars, and back....yet as a rule displayed no 'bent keycups', off center cups, key play, or the things which you note. Yet they had clearly been played in the trenches for decades and decades
FWIW, they are arguably my best selling vintage model, I'd say I have sold more of these than any other model and I have never had a displeased client; which is why I am perhaps challenging some of your comments here. IMHO they basically give you everything which Martin was famous for, for a fraction of the cost of a Committee, and in some aspects I find they actually exceed the III, which was supposedly their 'flagship' model.
Not to digress the thread, too much. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Not vintage but I love my Mx5 MK3, highly recommended, sounds good, smells great, lovely driveThe car analogy used by Wade is useful - in my case I have owned and driven a reliable and comfortable Ford widget for a number of years and am now tempted at the idea of an open top car sports car, to take out on high days and holidays?
No need to get overly touchy, here.Cool - now let's see you mangle the semantics as you try to match the statement above with your one from another thread below.
"Within the family of saxes there's such a diversity of sound, feel, performance, etc that I feel it is something which every player should at least experience to some degree. THAT is the point of the search, and if one sets that as their goal, they'll have a LOT more fun. "
Use as many 'buts' as you need....
No, it just has a smell I love, not sure what it is, the canvas maybe?I can't let that go! Tell us...what makes your MX5 smell so great?? Is it cos you live near a chocolate factory and you keep the roof down?
Y'know...that's exactly what I do. I read the opening post and comment appropriately.No need to get overly touchy, here.
Just, for me, if someone opens a post stating certain parameters, for example "I wanna delve into vintage" or " I have decided I am going to buy new"....
...I tend assume those are the parameters of the discussion, therefore would not tend to reply "vintage is nice, but try these contemporary horns"...or...."you know, buying used gets you so much more sax; I recommend these used ones : " etc....
The LX is a different kettle of fish to all the many different MKVI so-called "copies" as it was properly reverse engineered down to very small details of the bore, as opposed to just being a lookalike. ie a saxophone with MKVI shaped keywork.It's a Selmer MkVI copy - and while it doesn't quite capture the true essence of the marque, it gets pretty damn close.
It's certainly the best stab at it I've yet played, though it doesn't quite ring all the bells. I would have said that maybe it was down to the individual horn - but as it happens I've got two in for servicing at the moment (built 5 years apart), and the newer one is actually less close to the mark than the older one.The LX is a different kettle of fish to all the many different MKVI so-called "copies" as it was properly reverse engineered down to very small details of the bore, as opposed to just being a lookalike. ie a saxophone with MKVI shaped keywork.
Although some of the Chinese lookalikes are actually not bad at all. The LX stopped at being cosmetically too similar, perhaps due to it coming just that little but too close for comfort.
That's a good answer and certainly covers your point of view. Unfortunately it still doesn't give respect to the OP as possibly knowing what they want. I respect that Mauriat has lots of different models as does TJ. Have I tried them all or remember the models of all the ones I tried? No. Are they vintage horns? NO, and neither is the Ref 54. That doesn't change. This is about specifics. The OP was specific. He didn't say I'm a beginner looking for advice about what horn to buy and maybe I'd like a vintage horn. Please advise me if vintage horns are a bad idea. You have presumed that they have no idea what a vintage horn is and should open up a search including modern horns. You have justified that well, but you're still not giving respect to the OP and what they have stated as their preference.OK, so…you have a friend who has some unidentified Mauriats, you once tried a RAW in a shop – and you’ve read some stuff on the internet about the M2. And you don’t seem to have had any experience with them as regards build quality.
Not much to discuss there, really.
I’m not recommending they buy anything. I’m recommending they TRY alternatives – and I’m really not seeing how doing so fails to respect a choice or prevents them from achieving their goals.
All we really know about the OP is that they have one horn, and haven’t played anything else. Sure, we know they want a ‘vintage’ horn – but what specifically do they want from it? A vintage tone? But which vintage tone – and how do you know that their idea of a vintage tone is the same as yours?
I see this sort of thing all the time in the workshop – people come in with vintage horns that they’ve bought on the basis of ‘internet advice’...and now they’re wondering why they’re not getting out of it what everyone else seems to be. Oh yes, they’ve often done their ‘homework’ with regard to model numbers and ‘golden years’ of manufacture – but the one thing they haven’t done is try them out. And more often than not they simply lack the chops to be able to do a worthwhile side-by-side comparison.
And it’s equally common to find that there’s nothing wrong with their original horn other than they’re using a mouthpiece with a tone that can cut glass at 20 yards...and all they really needed was, say, a Selmer F or a Link 7*.
The three horns I suggested all have one thing in common – they all have a tonal approach that leans towards the vintage rather than being out-and-out contemporary horns (like, say, the YTS62) – and they’ll all be very, very different to the OP’s 902.~
As such they all represent a ‘bridge’ to the tonal landscape of a proper vintage horn (without any of the associated issues) – and there’s no-one here that can say for sure that none of these horns will float the OP’s boat. And given that the OP has only ever played a 902, I doubt even they can say for sure until they’ve tried a good few other horns.
In my books, showing ‘respect’ to a player’s choices means providing them with the sort of information that may save them money, time and heartbreak down the line. So there’s never going to be a time when I say “Don’t try alternatives” - and if that irks you it’s frankly not my problem.
I’m really not sure what the point of your questions was, but I’ll answer them anyway:
I don’t think that merely trying out different horns makes one a better player. It’s just practice and more practice that does that.
I couldn’t have decided which horn was truly right for me without trying a number of alternatives – which rather makes the third question superfluous.