C1/alto:

[frank_johnson]

I've played for nearly a month now, (did play for about 18months twenty odd years ago), have got used to the mouthpiece which came with my sax: Lawson 6* and am happy with my embouchure. However, when the song (mainly standards) I'm playing includes C1, I have to just have taken a breath to play it clean. The action on my Buffet S1 takes 'solid' pressure and there is no roller between the 'Eb' key and the bottom C. Could this have something to do with it, or is it a normal phenomenon for beginners wimpy lips? - It's spoiling my enjoyment of Autumn Leaves!!! :laugh:

 

[Pete Thomas]

I hope you don't mind a non-beginner answering in this section.

C is getting very low on alto. On tenore standards (especaillay ballads) can sound very low down if you like low tenore subtone. Subtone allows you to play the low notes nice and quiet and clean

On alto, subtone is a different kettle of fish as its much harder to play without going too flat in pitch.

ideally you work towards getting the low notes clean with and without subtone, with and without a breath or tongue before, but this does take time.

My advice for now is to practise low notes staccato, legato, legato tongued at all levels of dynamics.

But mainly:

Play Autumn Leaves in a different key!

On alto E minor or A minor are cool

 

[Bobby G]

I'd say it's probably wimpy-lip syndrome. Remembering back to when I started, that low C was a bit of a bugger to get, more than the low Bb, B, C# or D. Do you find the low C and D have a tendency to jump the octave? You probably just need more air and a more open throat, or lower tongue, whatever increases your cavity.

Also, Pete's suggestion of playing Autumn Leaves in a different key is a good one - if you play it in Em you can jam along with Miles & Cannonball on the 'Somethin' Else' album.

Cheers, Bob

 

[frank_johnson]

Many thanks Pete. I will change key and practise the low notes as you suggest. I think I am a frustrated tenor player. My original sax was a Cortone (?) tenor - east european, and most of my favourite players play tenor. However, I wanted a quality instrument within a budget of 250.00 and was offered the S1 at this price, inc. Lawson mpc. by an old friend!
I'll pay my dues on this and save my pennies for a decent tenor in the future.

 

[bobk]

As a 1-month beginner I also find low C pretty tough. I can play it fine in a scale, both starting and coming back down. I can play it fine in 'Fly me to the moon' (in the tune you come down the last few notes of a scale to the low C) but it just doesn't happen in 'Stranger on the shore*' (G to C). I suppose I subconsciously adjust embouchure ok most of the time, but not for the bigger drop down...

cheers,

Bob

* when I saw Acker at the Top Rank in Watford in about 1975 he said it was really 'Strangled on the shore' - whatever, it seems a good way of getting some long note practice while having fun playing a tune!

ps so my two earliest woodwind influences must be Nik Turner (Hawkwind) and Acker Bilk

 

[Bobby G]

Whoops, scrub that suggestion for Autumn Leaves in Em, I realise you are playing tenor not alto! You'd have to do it in Am on tenor to play with Miles & Cannon, although Em is a nice key for the fingering.

Bobk, as a denizen of Watford in the 70's, your third early influence after Acker Bilk and Nik Turner should be Dave Jackson out of Van der Graaf, given the number of times they played in the area. Incidentally, the first gig I ever went to (with my mum and dad) was Kenny Ball at the Red Lion in Hatfield in about 1968. Revolution was in the air, oh yes. The first 'real' gig I went to was Indian-inspired mystical-styled hippies Quintessence a couple of years later, when I was 14. No horns, but a nice line in flute freakout-ery.

Hope the shared sax is going ok and that you and Hannah are still diggin' it 🙂

Cheers, Bob

 

[bobk]

Hi Bob,

H & I are still having fun - having a teacher is a big help. I am still really happy with progress - I can play all sorts of things I thought would be impossible at this stage, but hawaii five-O still eludes me - in any key I can manage there always seems to be a low something below the limits of the alto.

Never did catch Van der Graf - saw quite a bit of Gong (many saxophones, also loud, fast and mad, which I rather favoured and still do). As well as Watford I spent many happy evenings at St. Albans City Hall - could go on and on and on and on....

cheers,

Bob

 

[frank_johnson]

Bob,
you were right in the first place! I do play alto, but feel that I'll be heading tenor way in the future. It all depends on the pennies. Maybe the Gibson will have to go!! Thanks for the advice.
Bob K.,
thanks for your input too!

 

[Bobby G]

Doh, I just don't know where my head's at tonight Frank. What with being laid up for a few days and off work since Jan 26, I don't know what day it is. Anyway, yes, try Autumn Leaves, in Em, on the alto..... phew!

After that, Madness 'One Step Beyond' in Dm will be a doddle, and then 'Summertime' won't be too bad either.

Cheers, Bob