Saxophones C Melody Saxophones

[jcn664]

That’s a beautiful piece of art. Too bad the artist is unknown. Thanks for sharing ! That took some effort.

The keys of my c melody is original,
And the high F is very very weird

 

[PigSquealer]

Photo of beaugnier.
I pay only 350€. Let's go

Thanks for sharing the pictures.
Does it play ? @ 350€ it should be in play condition 😬 looks like a very well enjoyed sax.
Mouthpiece or case included ?

 

[jcn664]

Thanks for sharing the pictures.
Does it play ? @ 350€ it should be in play condition 😬 looks like a very well enjoyed sax.
Mouthpiece or case included ?

Not conditions to play, but i will full restorate later, after the projet remade the Dell piane fully

 

[jcn664]

Not conditions to play, but i will full restorate later, after the projet remade the Dell piane fully

But you can add this picture for your data base

 

[turf3]

View attachment 37627View attachment 37628

This is very interesting, since the previous pictures of a Beaugnier C melody (in polished brass finish) show a straight, alto style neck (post 656). Now this silver plated one with a curved (tenor style) neck. Also I note the brass one has a one piece low B/Bb guard and the silver one has two guards. Both appear to have the G# link switch which I believe is unique to Beaugnier and MAYBE SML.

There are two mysteries to me:

1) Why did Beaugnier, sometime in the 1950s/60s, decide to make a run of C melodies, a voice that most people considered obsolete since the mid 1920s?

2) And who bought that silver plated one and used it so heavily that all the plating's worn off wherever the player touched it, plus on the key guards and other places?

At least one saxophone player wanted a C melody and used it, A LOT, in the 1950s or 60s. Who, and where were they playing it?

I own a Beaugnier bass sax, and I've played a couple Beaugnier altos, and they're really very fine playing instruments, very easy playing, excellent finger action. These two C melodies are very interesting.

 

[PigSquealer]

This is very interesting, since the previous pictures of a Beaugnier C melody (in polished brass finish) show a straight, alto style neck (post 656). Now this silver plated one with a curved (tenor style) neck. Also I note the brass one has a one piece low B/Bb guard and the silver one has two guards. Both appear to have the G# link switch which I believe is unique to Beaugnier and MAYBE SML.

Very different builds. The brass one was specifically made for Vito, early’60s. The silver plate appears to be a house made brand or one off stencil ? The silver plate build has features consistent with 1950-1960 Beaugnier altos
I’ve seen that G# on another maker, but can’t remember what. I haven’t had an SML or Beaugnier on my bench. So it wasn’t one of those.

There are two mysteries to me:

1) Why did Beaugnier, sometime in the 1950s/60s, decide to make a run of C melodies, a voice that most people considered obsolete since the mid 1920s?

Very odd indeed and I’ve never seen another.

2) And who bought that silver plated one and used it so heavily that all the plating's worn off wherever the player touched it, plus on the key guards and other places?

Definitely well enjoyed. Would be interesting to know the history of ownership. A picture of the sax being played would be a rare find.

At least one saxophone player wanted a C melody and used it, A LOT, in the 1950s or 60s. Who, and where were they playing it?

Especially considering it likely never left Europe. C Mel’s weren’t popular in Europe like they were in the US.

I own a Beaugnier bass sax, and I've played a couple Beaugnier altos, and they're really very fine playing instruments, very easy playing, excellent finger action.

Bass is worthy of posting on “Rarely Discussed” thread !

These two C melodies are very interesting.

I agree. It’s cool to see something different in C for a change.

 

[jcn664]

Very different builds. The brass one was specifically made for Vito, early’60s. The silver plate appears to be a house made brand or one off stencil ? The silver plate build has features consistent with 1950-1960 Beaugnier altos
I’ve seen that G# on another maker, but can’t remember what. I haven’t had an SML or Beaugnier on my bench. So it wasn’t one of those.

Very odd indeed and I’ve never seen another.

Definitely well enjoyed. Would be interesting to know the history of ownership. A picture of the sax being played would be a rare find.

Especially considering it likely never left Europe. C Mel’s weren’t popular in Europe like they were in the US.

Bass is worthy of posting on “Rarely Discussed” thread !


I agree. It’s cool to see something different in C for a change.

I'm happy that you find my c melody Beaugnier very interesting because it's for that i choose to pay this little "baby"

I was intrigued by the idea of owning a C-Melody with "modern" keywork that wasn't made in China,

And by having the first—and only—Beaugnier in my collection;

I try to acquire as many different brands as possible.

 

[jcn664]

Very different builds. The brass one was specifically made for Vito, early’60s. The silver plate appears to be a house made brand or one off stencil ? The silver plate build has features consistent with 1950-1960 Beaugnier altos
I’ve seen that G# on another maker, but can’t remember what. I haven’t had an SML or Beaugnier on my bench. So it wasn’t one of those.

Very odd indeed and I’ve never seen another.

Definitely well enjoyed. Would be interesting to know the history of ownership. A picture of the sax being played would be a rare find.

Especially considering it likely never left Europe. C Mel’s weren’t popular in Europe like they were in the US.

Bass is worthy of posting on “Rarely Discussed” thread !


I agree. It’s cool to see something different in C for a change.

It's not stencils, or for me it's not and Probably not, they're litterally write beaugnier on the bell,

I don't know if stencils have the name of the original manufactor
Pan american has not writing conn Ltd for exemple.

And it has litteraly the logo of beaugnier too

The house made or modele of beaugnier was more realiste with this engraving

But i don't know,

A picture of the sax being played would be a rare find : maybe, because before i didn't know beaugnier made C-melody and it's first time that i see beaugnier c melody,

Vito i know that, but i didn't know Vito was made by beaugnier, i thank it was leblanc because leblanc Vito

But you know more thing about Vito or c melody than me.

But that special too, it's not big alto design similar of conn c melody but little tenor has choosing for this models, it could be explain they're changing totally the conception in the modernization of c melody between this model and Vito

Maybe a custom order similary of c melody balanced action/sba/mark vi but i didn't believe that, because Vito c melody was developped after,

It would be strange decision to developped c melody on order before, and after to developped in catalog, it's no sense,

It's no sense developping c melody in 1960 too, you say me

 

[PigSquealer]

A picture of the sax being played would be a rare find

Ask the person you bought it from if they know the history of ownership.

 

[PigSquealer]

Anyone actually have a HP C to measure ? The maker and date if known. I would like to add to this chart.
View attachment 37384

FWIW in my limited experience. I have seen very few C melodies in HP that were American made. Those were all of Conn make and maybe one in a thousand.
European makes that were imported to US as stencile like Carl Fischer. Zero found. European & UK domestic product is very mixed. Unless it’s stamped LP. Assume it’s HP.

Not one single reply. I’m guessing they are uncommon now ?

 

[PigSquealer]

And the current 440Hz reference was essentially set because it was the easiest number to do the math for the other notes. So we have yet another intertwining of music and math here.

Well, 445 is what we might properly call "the high end of standard pitch" and 435 is what we might properly call "the low end of standard pitch". True high pitch is more like 452.

I found this article on the Conn Loyalist site that reviews some of this subject. Interesting history.

Conn Loyalist - Pitch Standards

“American Standard Pitch
Perhaps the name "American Standard Pitch" is inappropriate because it is known under many names: Concert Pitch, ISO 16, etc. This is the one we all are familiar with: A=440. It was adopted by the American Federation of Musicians in 1917 and by the American Music Industries Chamber of Commerce on June 11, 1925. The American Standards Association adopted it in 1936. In 1939 it was adopted International Federation of Standards Associations (ISA). In 1953 the International Standards Organization (ISO) endorsed it and in 1955 accepted it as ISO 16. Interestingly, it was arrived by owing to the fact that 439 being a prime number it is difficult to reproduce in the laboratory. Hence A=440. This is what is/was commonly known among instrument makers as "low pitch". I haven't been able to find any information on what temperature this would be at.“

Below is a screenshot of the article from link above.

 

[mark_addy]

I found this article on the Conn Loyalist site that reviews some of this subject. Interesting history.

Conn Loyalist - Pitch Standards

“American Standard Pitch
Perhaps the name "American Standard Pitch" is inappropriate because it is known under many names: Concert Pitch, ISO 16, etc. This is the one we all are familiar with: A=440. It was adopted by the American Federation of Musicians in 1917 and by the American Music Industries Chamber of Commerce on June 11, 1925. The American Standards Association adopted it in 1936. In 1939 it was adopted International Federation of Standards Associations (ISA). In 1953 the International Standards Organization (ISO) endorsed it and in 1955 accepted it as ISO 16. Interestingly, it was arrived by owing to the fact that 439 being a prime number it is difficult to reproduce in the laboratory. Hence A=440. This is what is/was commonly known among instrument makers as "low pitch". I haven't been able to find any information on what temperature this would be at.“

Below is a screenshot of the article from link above.
View attachment 37885
View attachment 37886

That's interesting. When I was a kid, my (somewhat wealthy) friend's family owned a piano, but they were kind-of Bohemians looking back and that thing was ancient. It apparently had a wooden frame, and I remember my friend teling me they'd had a piano tuner in who had tried to get it to 440 but had suggested he daren't and that it might implode! I wonder if it was old enough to have been made really low - or if the tuner was just scared about it being a bit wormy! I messed up a thread here already talking about my 1860s harmonium - plonking my cheapo guitar tuner on it just now suggests just over 450, which is as high as the guitar tuner goes. That might be 'Old Philharmonic Pitch' looking at the timeline above.

 

[PigSquealer]

That's interesting. When I was a kid, my (somewhat wealthy) friend's family owned a piano, but they were kind-of Bohemians looking back and that thing was ancient. It apparently had a wooden frame, and I remember my friend teling me they'd had a piano tuner in who had tried to get it to 440 but had suggested he daren't and that it might implode! I wonder if it was old enough to have been made really low - or if the tuner was just scared about it being a bit wormy! I messed up a thread here already talking about my 1860s harmonium - plonking my cheapo guitar tuner on it just now suggests just over 450, which is as high as the guitar tuner goes. That might be 'Old Philharmonic Pitch' looking at the timeline above.

It’s a worthy study of worldliness. All for answers to old past unsolved mysteries and to be on your game for the future.
Ma Squealers 1928 Kanabe baby grand was bought new by the San Antonio Texas Philharmonic as a practice piano. Her father bought this at auction in play condition in 1964 from the Phil.
Then had it “refurbished “.

Now I’m wondering How /what the tuning was ?

 

[LostCircuits]

That's interesting. When I was a kid, my (somewhat wealthy) friend's family owned a piano, but they were kind-of Bohemians looking back and that thing was ancient. It apparently had a wooden frame, and I remember my friend teling me they'd had a piano tuner in who had tried to get it to 440 but had suggested he daren't and that it might implode! I wonder if it was old enough to have been made really low - or if the tuner was just scared about it being a bit wormy! I messed up a thread here already talking about my 1860s harmonium - plonking my cheapo guitar tuner on it just now suggests just over 450, which is as high as the guitar tuner goes. That might be 'Old Philharmonic Pitch' looking at the timeline above.

It's probably more common than you think, I was just offered a very nice upright for free but it was at 432 Hz and the local piano tuner (he's the guy who travels to most big events in the Springs/Denver area to tune pianos for concems rts, a real pro). also said he would not dare to bring it up to 440Hz because it might crack.

Now keep in mind that there are different forms of crack, the harp is usually a huge chunk of iron and it is very unlikely for that one to crack but there are other parts including the tuning block that may not withstand the tension.

Or it may be a myth? I'll ask Todd Lindeblad next time I talk to him, he would know for sure

 

[Greychatter]

Folks... Here's the latest version of the C Melody Guide -- still in DRAFT form. I'm about to send out my requests for permissions to many of the sources quoted so this is likely to be "the" version for a couple of weeks. Then I'll align it with permissions and go to a final publication. As always, constructive feedback is welcome. And thank you to all who've already provided input.

Haphazard_Press_C_Melody_Answer_Guide_v37.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[jcn664]

Folks... Here's the latest version of the C Melody Guide -- still in DRAFT form. I'm about to send out my requests for permissions to many of the sources quoted so this is likely to be "the" version for a couple of weeks. Then I'll align it with permissions and go to a final publication. As always, constructive feedback is welcome. And thank you to all who've already provided input.

Haphazard_Press_C_Melody_Answer_Guide_v37.pdf

drive.google.com

It's great thing,

You would be have link or picture of c melody couesnon and beaugnier, i have one of them,

And for c soprano you talk about the Curved c soprano or Kholert but you don't talk about the origins of c soprano (not american but french maker before american maker (i know i have Probably the first c soprano, the other (3 modeles) is between 1853-1862-1858 (estimation)

It missed buffet crampons for exemple,

Little wrong on beaugnier : it existed c melody beaugnier without Vito engraving just Beaugnier with the logo of beaugnier before Vito with design of little tenor and after Vito with straight neck similar of conn c melody
It's great thing

 

[jcn664]

It's great thing,

You would be have link or picture of c melody couesnon and beaugnier, i have one of them,

And for c soprano you talk about the Curved c soprano or Kholert but y

Folks... Here's the latest version of the C Melody Guide -- still in DRAFT form. I'm about to send out my requests for permissions to many of the sources quoted so this is likely to be "the" version for a couple of weeks. Then I'll align it with permissions and go to a final publication. As always, constructive feedback is welcome. And thank you to all who've already provided input.

Haphazard_Press_C_Melody_Answer_Guide_v37.pdf

drive.google.com

ou don't talk about the origins of c soprano (not american but french maker before american maker (i know i have Probably the first c soprano, the other (3 modeles) is between 1853-1862-1858 (estimation)

It missed buffet crampons for exemple,

Little wrong on beaugnier : it existed c melody beaugnier without Vito engraving just Beaugnier with the logo of beaugnier before Vito with design of little tenor and after Vito with straight neck similar of conn c melody
It's great thing

Some might think this is a matter of ego, but I couldn't care less—it’s actually something else entirely.

In my view, the comprehensive guide is missing a section on the origins of saxophones in C. Specifically, it should mention the various C-pitched instruments created by Adolphe Sax—such as the C-melody, the bass in C, and the soprano in C. Providing this context and early history would pay tribute to these antiques, which represent the very origin of the instruments covered in this guide.

As for sources, information and images of an Adolphe Sax C-melody are available; for instance, it is featured in a YouTube video by Frédéric Couderc and Bruno Kampmann.

Furthermore, I could provide details regarding my own Adolphe Sax C-soprano.

And as for the bass in C, the prototype held by Kampmann is relatively well-doc umented.

 

[PigSquealer]

In my view, the comprehensive guide is missing a section on the origins of saxophones in C. Specifically, it should mention the various C-pitched instruments created by Adolphe Sax—such as the C-melody, the bass in C, and the soprano in C. Providing this context and early history would pay tribute to these antiques, which represent the very origin of the instruments covered in this guide.

The C origins and history are included in the first two sections. This book is a”Reference Answer Guide”, not an historical account of all the makers. Largely an overview of knowledge to understand or make an informed decision on buying one, or not to.

 

[LostCircuits]

C is (IMO) a moveable feast. Who is to say A has to be 440?

Here is a pretty good recap of the subject (unfortunately on FB only)

575K views · 21K reactions | The same musical notes, different names. Although...maybe not even the same musical notes | TomBacons

The same musical notes, different names. Although...maybe not even the same musical notes

www.facebook.com

😉

 

[jcn664]

@PigSquealer sorry for late, i didn't know how can se ding in private a picture