Beginner impro Are any of these books good/useful for a beginner trying to learn improvisation?

There's an adage that the quickest and best way to learn a language is ...
On the pillow. According to the French, anyway.
"La meilleure façon d’apprendre une langue, c’est sur l’oreiller".
Which doesn't work in Norwegian since the word for pillow is "pute" which is French slang for prostitute so the translation is a bit sordid....

Anyway...

I'm pretty sure this, like so many things is quite individual; especially for older people who have; diverse backgrounds, strengths and weaknesses. Learning, itself, is an acquired skill and more mature folk go about it in different ways. No size is going to fit all. Some are deep-end'ers, others like structure or something academic or "just do it" or whatever. None are universally true.
 
One thing that I've been doing in practice, recently, is..... I'm not sure what the correct term is, but it's where there's a singer, and the saxophonist is adding some background lines that complement what the singer is singing. Usually they play a short riff after the singer finishes one phrase, but sometimes they will come in in the middle of a phrase.

So, I'll have some music playing and try to complement the melody this way. Most of it comes out as crap, of course, but sometimes I get some lines I think sound "ok". And I guess the ratio between ok-to-crap is getting a little better, so hopefully that leads somewhere.

One thing I've had some decent amount of success on though, are song endings. I'm finding that as long as I play a bunch of notes in the scale of the song, and end on the root note (some songs I could end on the 5th), I can get a decent ending that sounds ok. But sometimes I flub it by playing too many notes though! 😅
Some useful tips I picked up from (guest) Big Band MD's, workshop leaders, etc are:
- keep it simple!
- improvise in 'phrases' (with gaps between them), much like text has punctuation marks like commas, full stops, etc. Avoid 'filling up all the space" with a solo/improv
- improvise on rhythm too: it can be just as effective as (only) on melody
- if you can enough time, 'tell a (short) story" with a beginning, a middle and an end; for example relatively simple build-up or 'statement', the middle is the 'development' and the end might be simpler 'build-down' or (in rock) a 'climax'.
 
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First of all, thanks for all the replies so far. Appreciate the effort.

So maybe I'll just do an info dump here to let you all know what my attempts and progress has been, and maybe someone can identify the problem and suggest a course of action that I am capable of following.

So I've been trying a couple of things - basically throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
... long description of various "methodologies" ... I think one of my main issues is that I am too rigid with patterns/formulas and not imaginative enough to be able to improvise. In all four methods that I have tried, I've been strictly following a pattern and unable to deviate out of the formula, which is probably why I get stuck after a while, with roughly the same line of thinking -- "what I'm doing now is cool, but how do I get from this to that other genre I'm interested in?"
I suspect you need to spend more time playing and listening to what you play, and less time trying strategies.

I am NOT saying that a knowledge of theory, functional harmony, chord-scale relationships, transcribing solos, all that, is not of value. But what I'm hearing here is what I've seen many times when people who've been trained in playing only what's written on the page try to improvise - they freeze up, they can only play what they've practiced, the exact notes I mean, but making up stuff out of their heads, they get stuck on little finger patterns learned from a book.

What you have to do is to get comfortable with playing stuff that's completely unwritten and with the bare minimum of planning; listening to what comes out; judging whether it sounds good or bad; doing more of what sounds good and less of what sounds bad.

Until you can let yourself go to do that (and accept that it's often going to sound bad, and that no catastrophe will follow), you'll be letting the strategizing and pattern memorization tail wag the improvisation dog. You need for all those books and patterns and transcriptions to be SUPPORTING the improvisation, not the other way round.

What you need to be doing is playing along with music on the radio or records. No music. No strategies. Pull stuff up that you don't even know the key. Or the tune. - Or, pull up stuff you've heard a thousand times, but never played it. Don't look it up for the key, the chord changes, the melody; just play the music and play along with it. Pick it out as you go along. If the melody's simple, play it some, if not, just go straight to improvising along with the record.

When you can get to the point where you can play stuff that more or less fits what you're hearing, using only those things on the sides of your head, THEN go back to the books and patterns and transcriptions - NOW you'll be ready to apply these things in SERVICE TO your playing, not thinking that those things ARE the playing.
 
............
- keep it simple!
- improvise in 'phrases' (with gaps between them), much like text has punctuation marks like commas, full stops, etc. Avoid 'filling up all the space" with a solo/improv
- improvise on rhythm too: it can be just as effective as (only) on melody
- if you can enough time, 'tell a (short) story" with a beginning, a middle and an end; for example relatively simple build-up or 'statement', the middle is the 'development' and the end might be simpler 'build-down' or (in rock) a 'climax'.
Exactly what I was advised by my teacher and band leader.
Take a few notes and 'play' with them with space inbetween. For most listeners rhythm and melody are key.

This isn't an impro but shows what can be done with just a few notes and repetition:
BBBBB CBB BAA AGG G A GF#
CCCC DCC CBB BAA A B AG
Recognise it?
What you have to do is to get comfortable with playing stuff that's completely unwritten and with the bare minimum of planning; listening to what comes out; judging whether it sounds good or bad; doing more of what sounds good and less of what sounds bad.

Until you can let yourself go to do that (and accept that it's often going to sound bad, and that no catastrophe will follow)....
I think some folk look down on 'noodling' as an unstructured waste of practice time.

But it was how, in conjunction with tuition and 'theory', I got to 'know' my sax, what notes sound good/bad together, how a subtle sharp or flat in the right place can spice things up, how silences add to the musicality. The little theory I knew started to make sense....oh that's a 3rd/5th/octave/triad/part of a scale.

It is a letting go of ego, pride, notions of sounding right/wrong and just playing and letting one's brain and fingers figure it out; it will come with enough practice.
 
Define "noodling".
If it's blowing while moving your fingers around, hoping to hear something, that sounds musical, there are other ways to learn to be a musician, with composition and improve skills.
Please, let's avoid defining, what is musical.

Try this, finger L123/R123.
Blow and listen.
Sing that sound, and continue on, creating an original melody. You can sing any sound, more than once, in secession.
Record what you are doing.
If it sounds nice and not exactly like someone else's melody, find it on your horn.
Check the archives, for what I said, learned and taught, about melodic walking bass lines, to help those, "stuck in irons" with respect to improve/comp.
 
Define "noodling".
If it's blowing while moving your fingers around, hoping to hear something, that sounds musical, there are other ways to learn to be a musician, with composition and improve skills.
Please, let's avoid defining, what is musical.
By 'noodling' I meant blowing and fingering notes, hearing them and playing what I think should come next and sounds good (to me). The more I do this the more I recognise intervals, patterns etc. Now I can develop simple phrases and add fill notes, spaces and so on.

I can't tell if I am playing what I hear in my head or hearing in my head what I am playing but something tells my finger to key this or that note and how to time and articulate it.

It didn't mean blowing notes and fingering randomly and hoping for the best, although I have heard of that approach.

I don't think that I defined what is or isn't musical.
 
No. Should we know what those letters mean though? Is it a code?
Yes :thumb:

A code is symbols, letters or numbers, used to represent information or messages.
Music notation is symbols, letters or numbers, used to represent musical information. Thus a code 😉

I would have written the above in proper music notation if I could!

(@Pete Thomas It could be code for "I'm about to have dinner but please check your DM in an hour")
 
@Pete Thomas

Screenshot 2025-08-04 at 20.48.32.webp


You can look now :rofl:

PS
Screenshot 2025-08-04 at 20.51.54.webp
 
Glad the tune was posted.
I thought it was a tune, that I called cadence, while marching the Flight,
to the hanger.

Memories,
of the plane,
I never flew,
but I loaded film,
for the Pilot,
the only crew. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

Air Force, from beyond the Blue haiku. 😵‍💫

IMG_4814.webp
 
Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone.


I think you're missing a link?
Thanks, yes you're right. I split 1 (long) draft post into 2. One on the 'book' (with amazon link). The other on 'tips' I've picked up along the way. I unfortunately left the 'Intro' paragraph (without a link) in the 2nd post too. I've now edited the 2nd post.
Mike
 

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