Beginner Saxes Arbiter pro sound... Taiwan.

[teen37]

The issue here is, given your budget....a brand new horn which is firmly REALLY at the intermediate level ( this means tonality and blowing response are actually more dialed in, and ergos and key action are slicker and more responsive than base or budget models -just as a generalization) is probably going to cost more than your budget.
Which is why folks brought up the used market.

Now, I am no expert on new shop prices. Usually what I do is just go to Thomann and plug in some good, current models which I know and respect, to see what the absolute CHEAPEST price available would be...because they usually are the online purveyor that has such pricing.

Just did that... and for some makes and brands they did not come up with much as far as significant deals on intermediate or better models which land in your price range., and other models tgey simply do not have......except for the Jupiter 700. Which is just their updated 789 intermediate. THAT is a worthy contender, there, new for 1300quid on their UK site.

Some sites call it 'student', but I have worked on a couple and they really are the former 789 intermediate horn with just a few minor changes. Plus their current 'student' model is the 500, per the Jupe website...they list the 700 as intermediate. So that one is def a step up from any base model. Price pretty good too, on this side of the Pond the cheapest retail price I found was $2050 or 1550quid equiv.

So that one might be worth looking into. They are good models.

Thanks Jaye, I appreciate your help ☺️ I can stretch my budget maybe upto £2000. I was just trying to be realistic here, as I no longer play in any bands and rarely do anything public, it's just for me to enjoy but I don't want to be put off by struggling with my instrument. I'll certainly persevere with it at the moment and continue to get all the help and advice on my next one from you guys. ☺️😘

 

[Stephen Howard]

Thanks Jaye, I appreciate your help ☺️ I can stretch my budget maybe upto £2000. I was just trying to be realistic here, as I no longer play in any bands and rarely do anything public, it's just for me to enjoy but I don't want to be put off by struggling with my instrument. I'll certainly persevere with it at the moment and continue to get all the help and advice on my next one from you guys. ☺️😘

Two grand puts you in a good spot for a decent used tenor.
That's easily Yamaha 62 money - and also just puts you in the range of Yanagisawa's 900 series horns. A late model 10M is possible too, and a TJ RAW.
You might also just about be able to pick up a Selmer SA80...but you'd be at the absolute lower end of what they go for, and that usually means they need some work doing to them.

I would say stick with what you have for a while - and in the meantime start browsing ebay and the like to get an idea of what's available at what prices and in what condition.

 

[mizmar]

put off by struggling with my instrument.

persevere with it

Seems to me it's a bit sad to be seeing words like "struggle" and "persevere", there.

I understand the difference between going to pick up the horn and thinking "now what's going to annoy me" or such; and "hello there, let's make beautiful music together".
We all know that there are many bits in a set-up that can make that difference and it's worth getting to the situation where the set-up is enhancing rather than getting in the way. And that might change over time, with the player.
If you're on the negative side of that I do think it's worth having a considered review, end-to-end, and spending a bit to fix problems if necessary... Although it could be other problems, like feeling differently because you're not playing with others so much.

 

[teen37]

The issue here is, given your budget....a brand new horn which is firmly REALLY at the intermediate level ( this means tonality and blowing response are actually more dialed in, and ergos and key action are slicker and more responsive than base or budget models -just as a generalization) is probably going to cost more than your budget.
Which is why folks brought up the used market.

Now, I am no expert on new shop prices. Usually what I do is just go to Thomann and plug in some good, current models which I know and respect, to see what the absolute CHEAPEST price available would be...because they usually are the online purveyor that has such pricing.

Just did that... and for some makes and brands they did not come up with much as far as significant deals on intermediate or better models which land in your price range., and other models tgey simply do not have......except for the Jupiter 700. Which is just their updated 789 intermediate. THAT is a worthy contender, there, new for 1300quid on their UK site.

Some sites call it 'student', but I have worked on a couple and they really are the former 789 intermediate horn with just a few minor changes. Plus their current 'student' model is the 500, per the Jupe website...they list the 700 as intermediate. So that one is def a step up from any base model. Price pretty good too, on this side of the Pond the cheapest retail price I found was $2050 or 1550quid equiv.

So that one might be worth looking into. They are good models.

Two grand puts you in a good spot for a decent used tenor.
That's easily Yamaha 62 money - and also just puts you in the range of Yanagisawa's 900 series horns. A late model 10M is possible too, and a TJ RAW.
You might also just about be able to pick up a Selmer SA80...but you'd be at the absolute lower end of what they go for, and that usually means they need some work doing to them.

I would say stick with what you have for a while - and in the meantime start browsing ebay and the like to get an idea of what's available at what prices and in what condition.

Thanks Stephen, I appreciate the advice. I'll certainly start looking out for those horns suggested ☺️ The first thing I did this morning was reach for your Haynes manual to see how I could check and tweak things on my horn 😂 it made for some interesting reading at 7.30 am. I noticed at last night's practice session that my neck cork has come lose so I'll need to either replace or repair it ASAP. I'll be ordering a few supplies from amazon or nipping to b&m this week ☺️

 

[turf3]

Well, I don't know exactly what an "Arbiter Pro Jazz" is, but I bet it's a Far Eastern copy of a Selmer Super Action 80. So, tonally, it's probably going to be in that Selmer ballpark - the Super Action 80 was Selmer's own copy of the Mark 6, with refinements. I mean, it won't be exactly like playing a SA80, either mechanically or acoustically, but it will probably be a lot closer than if you had a Conn or Buescher.

Now the thing might be suffering mechanically, and that'll be a drag. But you said "almost unplayed" - I'd bet that you've got a couple of pads that need to be reset, or a loose pivot screw, or some of that kind of thing. It's also possible that it was built with such poor QC that no one can get it reliably in adjustment. But I rather doubt it.

I wouldn't jump out there and tell you not to buy a new (or new-to-you) horn if you want to, but be advised that if your goal is to practice and develop some Getz stuff, buying a horn may well not be the direct path to it.

 

[teen37]

Well, I don't know exactly what an "Arbiter Pro Jazz" is, but I bet it's a Far Eastern copy of a Selmer Super Action 80. So, tonally, it's probably going to be in that Selmer ballpark - the Super Action 80 was Selmer's own copy of the Mark 6, with refinements. I mean, it won't be exactly like playing a SA80, either mechanically or acoustically, but it will probably be a lot closer than if you had a Conn or Buescher.

Now the thing might be suffering mechanically, and that'll be a drag. But you said "almost unplayed" - I'd bet that you've got a couple of pads that need to be reset, or a loose pivot screw, or some of that kind of thing. It's also possible that it was built with such poor QC that no one can get it reliably in adjustment. But I rather doubt it.

I wouldn't jump out there and tell you not to buy a new (or new-to-you) horn if you want to, but be advised that if your goal is to practice and develop some Getz stuff, buying a horn may well not be the direct path to it.

Thank you ☺️ I'm certainly not going to jump into just buying any old horn thinking it will solve all my issues but I'm not sure how you can compare it to a selmer if you don't know what an Arbiter pro sound jazz is? 🤔🤷 I've never played a selmer so I have no comparison. But I did imply it's not been played regularly and that may have some impact on the instrument for sure, however, I did get it serviced a while back and I got the impression there wasn't too much wrong with it in the first place even though it cost nearly 100 quid. 😳😂 It may well be down to my playing, I'm sure some of it is tbh. But I don't know anyone around here that plays for me to ask them to give it a blow and see how it feels to them unfortunately 🤷

 

[teen37]

Two grand puts you in a good spot for a decent used tenor.
That's easily Yamaha 62 money - and also just puts you in the range of Yanagisawa's 900 series horns. A late model 10M is possible too, and a TJ RAW.
You might also just about be able to pick up a Selmer SA80...but you'd be at the absolute lower end of what they go for, and that usually means they need some work doing to them.

I would say stick with what you have for a while - and in the meantime start browsing ebay and the like to get an idea of what's available at what prices and in what condition.

I've just been browsing ebay and found a selmer SA 80 for around my 2 grand budget, recently serviced at dawkes music within a 40 mile radius from home. Tempted!!

 

[turf3]

Thank you ☺️ I'm certainly not going to jump into just buying any old horn thinking it will solve all my issues but I'm not sure how you can compare it to a selmer if you don't know what an Arbiter pro sound jazz is? 🤔🤷 ...

Because for the last 30 years or more, pretty much every single one of the essentially-fungible low-cost Far Eastern saxophones has been a copy of the Selmer Super Action 80.

 

[teen37]

Because for the last 30 years or more, pretty much every single one of the essentially-fungible low-cost Far Eastern saxophones has been a copy of the Selmer Super Action 80.

Possibly 🤷 I really don't know 🤷

 

[Colin the Bear]

Curly has quite a range of horns in your price bracket. Buying a refurbished horn from a reputable repairer takes all the stress out of it. The site states refurbished horns come with a 12 month guarantee and @curlybob is a great player and member here.

If there's nothing there to interest you, wait a week and have another look.

Tenor Saxophones for Sale. Online or Instore

Tenor Saxophones for Sale online or instore. Specialist Woodwind Dealer Liverpool City Centre. Brands include Trevor James, Yamaha, Lupifaro, Buffet etc,

www.curlywoodwind.co.uk

 

[teen37]

Curly has quite a range of horns in your price bracket. Buying a refurbished horn from a reputable repairer takes all the stress out of it. The site states refurbished horns come with a 12 month guarantee and @curlybob is a great player and member here.

If there's nothing there to interest you, wait a week and have another look.

Tenor Saxophones for Sale. Online or Instore

Tenor Saxophones for Sale online or instore. Specialist Woodwind Dealer Liverpool City Centre. Brands include Trevor James, Yamaha, Lupifaro, Buffet etc,

www.curlywoodwind.co.uk

Thanks Colin I'll take a look 😘

 

[Stephen Howard]

Because for the last 30 years or more, pretty much every single one of the essentially-fungible low-cost Far Eastern saxophones has been a copy of the Selmer Super Action 80.

Nope.

It may well have been true prior to the Ultra-Cheap horn invasion some 20 or so years ago ('Selma' et al), but since then copies of Yanagisawa horns have far outstripped those of Selmer. Plus there are plenty that are modelled on Yamaha.
At the very best you could say it's a three-way split - which is a hell of a long way from 'pretty much every single one'.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Possibly 🤷 I really don't know 🤷

Nor does he, evidently.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I've just been browsing ebay and found a selmer SA 80 for around my 2 grand budget, recently serviced at dawkes music within a 40 mile radius from home. Tempted!!

It would be worth a look. The distance is fair, the Dawkes service will count for something.
Is it an SA80I or an SA80II? Do you know another (better?) player who can go with you to give a second opinion?
Maybe go have a look, and trust to your eyes and instincts. Otherwise the Curly Woodwinds suggestions is a good bet.

 

[turf3]

Possibly 🤷 I really don't k

Nope.

It may well have been true prior to the Ultra-Cheap horn invasion some 20 or so years ago ('Selma' et al), but since then copies of Yanagisawa horns have far outstripped those of Selmer. Plus there are plenty that are modelled on Yamaha.
At the very best you could say it's a three-way split - which is a hell of a long way from 'pretty much every single one'.

I stand corrected.

I will still suggest, however, that the Selmer/Yamaha/Yanagisawa range really aren't all that much different from each other; so the "Arbiter" (IF in good condition) still probably isn't so far from that "Stan Getz Selmer and Brilhart or Link" place to need being changed out for tonal reasons.

All that said, of course, it's always nice to get a new instrument of higher quality.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Even I can tell the difference between a Yam and a Yan. 😉

 

[Stephen Howard]

I stand corrected.

I will still suggest, however, that the Selmer/Yamaha/Yanagisawa range really aren't all that much different from each other;

You can certainly suggest it - but it's probably not wise to do so in public...because people will point and laugh.

I mean, c'mon, seriously? Have we all been fooling ourselves for decades? Should we all have bought a Yamaha 62 and called it day?
If you're thinking that just because cheap far eastern horns are copies then they're likely to be generic - you'd be wrong, again.

 

[turf3]

You can certainly suggest it - but it's probably not wise to do so in public...because people will point and laugh.

I mean, c'mon, seriously? Have we all been fooling ourselves for decades? Should we all have bought a Yamaha 62 and called it day?
If you're thinking that just because cheap far eastern horns are copies then they're likely to be generic - you'd be wrong, again.

Well, you're overexaggerating my point. I'm not saying every model of saxophone is the same. But let's face it; the range from Yamaha to Yani to Selmer and covering their copies is still a fairly narrow range, compared to things like Conns, Bueschers, Martins, Holtons, etc.

So, to the actual point, if the OP wants to head toward a "Getz" kind of sound, it would make real good sense to get a Link or Brilhart mouthpiece and a modernish horn in that vein, rather than, say, a 1920 Conn with a Dukoff D7.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Well, you're overexaggerating my point. I'm not saying every model of saxophone is the same. But let's face it; the range from Yamaha to Yani to Selmer and covering their copies is still a fairly narrow range, compared to things like Conns, Bueschers, Martins, Holtons, etc.

So, to the actual point, if the OP wants to head toward a "Getz" kind of sound, it would make real good sense to get a Link or Brilhart mouthpiece and a modernish horn in that vein, rather than, say, a 1920 Conn with a Dukoff D7.

Are you kidding me? Or just deliberately wasting my time?

There's a whole world of difference between a Selmer, a Yani and a Yamaha. Three entirely different tonal philosophies. It's fine if those nuances are beyond you (though I find that many a 'newbie' is able to discern the differences) but pretty much everyone else considers them to be really rather important. And so they should - because they are.

 

[teen37]

It would be worth a look. The distance is fair, the Dawkes service will count for something.
Is it an SA80I or an SA80II? Do you know another (better?) player who can go with you to give a second opinion?
Maybe go have a look, and trust to your eyes and instincts. Otherwise the Curly Woodwinds suggestions is a good bet.

Yeah, he said he bought it from ebay from the states just over 20 yrs ago and was serviced 4 months ago. No paperwork. Serial number says 1981 series I. Alot of lacquer missing but still looks nice. I don't know a better horn player unfortunately 🙄 to take with me. Thinking of going tomorrow 🤔🤷