Saxophones Another Beaugnier

[Woodpad]

Closed all new home made pads (except for the cork octave pad) with silicone paste in my Baldwin special (model 37 stencil). I could blow a soft low Bb, so it is sufficiently closed. Now it has to hard out after which I can do the finishing touches going from low Bb to high F one key at a time.

 

[Woodpad]

After the pad silicone rings have solidified for a night, I removed the elastic bands that keep the keys closed against the springs. Around 20 gr force to make it comparable to the force of fingers closing a key. Most pads have a percussive sound when tapped, except for three. These three could have minor leaks, but that is visible in the silicone ring when the keys are opened.

 

[Woodpad]

Checked the bell keys today. no visible leaks on the silicone rings, but one when reattached. A small gap on the bottom of the last pad. This means that the tension on the silicone ring during hardening was too much, or came from a wrong direction. Not a big problem just a small amount of silicone paste on the rim of the tone hole and close the pad again with a slightly altered direction of the pressure.

I thought there was something strange with the screws. They had a little smudge that didn't react to petrol, heat or alcohol. Found out that all screws had a hole halfway filled with nylon. Something to keep the screws in position.

 

[Ghr9204]

Found out that all screws had a hole halfway filled with nylon.

Or perhaps filled with a thread locking paste like Locktite®? When screwing with threads coated with thread locker, allows the excess to bleed into the hole so it doesn't bleed into the moving rod?

(Note, if one senses a need to use a thread locker, recommend using one with the least amount of locking action. It only takes a touch to keep a screw from backing out of adjustment, but allows easy removal later.)

 

[skeller047]

Yes, Beaugnier did this on the pivot screws. I suspect they put a mild locking paste in the recess; both my Beaugnier altos had this stuff, and with age it becomes dirty, gooey and hard to clean.

Note, if one senses a need to use a thread locker, recommend using one with the least amount of locking action. It only takes a touch to keep a screw from backing out of adjustment, but allows easy removal later.

Yes. If needed, a minute drop of purple Loctite is fine, but no more.

 

[Woodpad]

Or perhaps filled with a thread locking paste like Locktite®? When screwing with threads coated with thread locker, allows the excess to bleed into the hole so it doesn't bleed into the moving rod?

Yes, Beaugnier did this on the pivot screws. I suspect they put a mild locking paste in the recess; both my Beaugnier altos had this stuff, and with age it becomes dirty, gooey and hard to clean.

Yes. If needed, a minute drop of purple Loctite is fine, but no more.

As alcohol didn't dissolve this gooey stuff for a bit it is probably no loctite. When I remember where I stored the acetone I can do a better test. The hole is too big for a minute drop so it is for very mild locking stuff.
Still, it is a better idea than grub screws.

The easiest way to remove it is too heat only the screw. The stuff doesn't melt, but it coils up a little. Enough to grip it and lift it out.

After doing the pads from low Bb to G# the saxophone is very resounding with a nice grunt when pressed.
Sounds like a keeper.

 

[Woodpad]

Picking up the Baldwin special after a week, I played it for an hour and it's a keeper. The pads still have reflecting areas almost as large as the tone hole but it sounds ok. Can sing like an angel and roar like a tiger.

 

[Ghr9204]

Dropped off my Vito 23 & Antigua Winds altos at Tarpley Music yesterday for repair. Bought a Gator Andante ABS hard case for it, half price at $78 from Amazon. From photos I think the 23 will fit.

I made a new topic regarding this case and the Model 37 fit with the Gator Andante, a very rugged case worth its retail cost of $160.

Accessories - Aftermarket Case for Beaugnier Vito 37 Alto Sax

Recently I purchased an early 1950's Beaugnier Vito Model 37 alto saxophone in very good shape. Now I am looking for an aftermarket case. I found out something interesting. The cases that my 1980's Selmer Bundy II and Antigua Winds Pro altos do not fit the 37. The 37 has a larger diameter bell...

cafesaxophone.com

A minor caveat was pushing on the case top to crease the interior top foam 5 mm more to fit the bell rim so I could completely close the top. After that, it fits fine. Sax was unharmed. Rest of the interior dimensions the case fits fine. Details are further explained there.

 

[Geomg]

Techncians talk all kinds of nonsense regarding saxophone bore designs, and almost never based on actual measurements.

First of all, there is no single "bore size" for a saxophone, as it's a cone.

Secondly, that cone deviates quite largely from a true cone, especially in the neck and bow areas, partly due to the requirements of manufacture, and partly due to manufacturers' tweaking to improve intonation across the range of the horn. Of course, a large part of the surface of that cone is disturbed by closed tone holes which result in a very "lumpy" bore. I'm sure that is why the thing doesn't behave exactly like a theoretical cone, requiring said tweaking.

Often, when someone on the internet offers up a statement that "such and such a horn has such and such a sound because it's a large bore [or small bore] horn", I go to the one data base of ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS I know of, the Marten Postma site; and about 50% of the time I find the horn they're talking about is pretty exactly spot on the average bore size (down the length of the thing) for all the horns in the database; about 25% of the time I find that the horn they're calling "Large Bore" deviates from the average in several places, being SMALLER than the average; and only about 25% of the time do I find that there are data indicating that one could make some kind of an argument that the thing they're calling "Large bore" [or "small bore"] actually is what they're calling it.

In other words, pretty much the exact results one would expect from random chance.

I have learned to discount something like 99% of the big all-encompassing statements that techs make, as total and unmitigated rubbish; and the more authoritatively they make them, the more likely the statements are to be wrong.

"all old sopranos play out of tune"
"old Conns play out of tune"
"the set screws on Conn saxophones are needless and should be taken out and thrown away"
"This [holds up a Dolnet stencil labeled "Martin, Paris"] is a REAL Martin, before they were taken over by Wurlitzer and ruined"
"Holton saxophones especially are no good"
"You want to get rid of that [King Super 20; Conn naked lady; Buescher 400; etc.] they're no good, you need a Yamaha student horn"
"that little pad round back is the bastard key and the best thing to do is to take off the mechanism and throw it away, grind down the tone hole, and solder a penny over it"

Shall I continue?

Yes! Finally, for example beaugnier, leblanc, vito never produced a model 36 well sorry but they did because I got one and I can prove it. A real corker was when I researched which soprano did Sydney Bechet play ie possibly a straight Martin like mine but no one statement was that he whether alto or soprano always went straight for his favourite mk6, so I checked the first mk6 soprano if memory serves me correct was manufactured in 1965 Sydney Bechet passed away i think in 1967 but he always preferred his mk6.
Oh I could go on especially that all vito saxophones were student level ........ I now feel so much better. Thanks folks

 

[Woodpad]

Don Byas also played on a Vito snake

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjsIXZrJpA

 

[PigSquealer]

I’ll add this fine article.

Vito Leblanc System 35 (Johnny Hodges) alto saxophone review

A workbench review of the Vito Leblanc System 35 (Johnny Hodges) alto saxophone

www.shwoodwind.co.uk

 

[PigSquealer]

Yes! Finally, for example beaugnier, leblanc, vito never produced a model 36 well sorry but they did because I got one and I can prove it. A real corker was when I researched which soprano did Sydney Bechet play ie possibly a straight Martin like mine but no one statement was that he whether alto or soprano always went straight for his favourite mk6, so I checked the first mk6 soprano if memory serves me correct was manufactured in 1965 Sydney Bechet passed away i think in 1967 but he always preferred his mk6.
Oh I could go on especially that all vito saxophones were student level ........ I now feel so much better. Thanks folks

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

Hi, sorry for not getting back sooner but I'll make a start hopefully it will be interesting if nothing else also my apologies in advance as there are members on here who are far more knowledgeable than i.
From left to right vito 35 system, vito 36, vito 37, vito 38 and lastly vito 39, the next post I'll put more detailed photos

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

What i believe to be a model 36 on the left is i think clearly an older model compared to the model 37 on the right, main reason being both the B and the Bb on the same hinge rod ie old style whereas the model 37 is a much improved version with these keys on separate rods and I'm sure they stopped putting the pearls in the key guards on as I don't think I've seen a model 37 with them.

 

[Geomg]

Yes! Finally, for example beaugnier, leblanc, vito never produced a model 36 well sorry but they did because I got one and I can prove it. A real corker was when I researched which soprano did Sydney Bechet play ie possibly a straight Martin like mine but no one statement was that he whether alto or soprano always went straight for his favourite mk6, so I checked the first mk6 soprano if memory serves me correct was manufactured in 1965 Sydney Bechet passed away i think in 1967 but he always preferred his mk6.
Oh I could go on especially that all vito saxophones were student level ........ I now feel so much better. Thanks folks

What i believe to be a model 36 on the left is i think clearly an older model compared to the model 37 on the right, main reason being both the B and the Bb on the same hinge rod ie old style whereas the model 37 is a much improved version with these keys on separate rods and I'm sure they stopped putting the pearls in the key guards on as I don't think I've seen a model 37 with them.

What i believe to be a model 36 on the left is i think clearly an older model compared to the model 37 on the right, main reason being both the B and the Bb on the same hinge rod ie old style whereas the model 37 is a much improved version with these keys on separate rods and I'm sure they stopped putting the pearls in the key guards on as I don't think I've seen a model 37 with them.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

Hope this is loading properly, there are also different lefthand tables, righthand spatula keys, the key guards though they are all of the same era with the triple key guards.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

Oh almost forgot the model 37 pivot screws are the same style as the 35 system whereas the model 36 has the other type.
In addition to this I was trawling the Internet one day to compare i think mk6 prices when new and vito 35 system saxophones and I came across an instrument catalogue which in alphabetical order had all the major manufacturers and their current models for I think that year along with the retail price.
When I scrolled down to leblanc I was surprised but elated when I saw clearly listed vito 36 along with the price which of course I can't remember also a footnote at the end mentioned anyone interested in the knew model 39 to contact the head office. I am trying to track down that info which I would have saved to my phone if possible but I am struggling to find it at the moment.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

 

[nethanpaul86]

That’s a find. Instruments made by Beaugnier often have design differences. These differences depend on the stencil brand, when they were made and who they were made for. So the things you noticed don’t mean it’s not a Beaugnier. The condition sounds really good with the old Vandoren Perfecta mouthpiece. If it plays well as it looks you might have found a Beaugnier model that not many people know about. It would be cool to check the number and engraving details, with other known Noblet saxophones.

 

[Geomg]

I would love to see pictures of your model 36 and your documentation of its features. That would be great for proper historical proof for another person in the future. The exact reason for threads like this. Discovery in facts.

Hi, I don't believe I actually found this but although there is not a definitive photo I think it's fair to say that they did actually produce a model 36 I'm sure the kenosha alto which I have is the early model anyway I do have some more interesting buaegnier leblanc vito and noblet saxophones if anyone is interested.