Amps - what to get?

[phil_edwards]

I'm new to playing with a mic/amp set-up so what should I look for in an amp?

I've no idea where to start and as 90% of them are for guitars will they be OK for the sax? Or are there ones particular to acoustic instruments? Or does the amp not matter too much, it's the mic that counts?

As I say, no idea where to start so your comments welcomed. Ideally looking for something cheap (ebay?) as I may not use it much, so no need to go silly.

regards, Phil

 

[philthd]

most guitar amps will have the sound contoured in a fairly guitar specific way. its possible and interesting to put other things through it, but it might not be the sound youre after.

keyboard amps or powered monitors give a flatter response


but ive rarely seen a horn player use their own amp - if youre only competing with backline in a small venue you can usually play loudly enough (particularly with a loudish piece on), whilst if youre playing with full pa then you would normally prefer the sound of a mic'ed horn to a mic'ed amp.

choice of mic can make a huge difference to the sound - every remotely serious singer or horn player should own at least one -
as can preamps, effects processors, delay/reverb units etc if you really want to sculpt your sound

 

[Pete Thomas]

I used to use a small keyboard amp. This was with a pickup that had a line level output. If you are using a microphone I think you will need a mic preamp if using a keyboard amp to bring the signal up to line level.

 

[phil_edwards]

philthD wrote:
most guitar amps will have the sound contoured in a fairly guitar specific way. its possible and interesting to put other things through it, but it might not be the sound youre after.

I thought that might be the case.

philthD wrote:
.....whilst if youre playing with full pa then you would normally prefer the sound of a mic'ed horn to a mic'ed amp.

erm, you've lost me now. What's the difference here? (sorry, I'm really new to this)

regards, Phil

 

[philthd]

if you mic'ed your sax into an amp in a big rig situation youd then still have to mic up the amp to get the sound to the desk. guitarists like this because of the way the amp and even the cab colours the sound but i cant see any reason a sax player would want to - thats all i meant by that

 

[phil_edwards]

Okey-dokey, got it now. No, it's nothing like as complicated as that.

At the 12-bar night we play mic'd up because we are in a room competing with a dozen guitarists, but it's all individual amps by your feet, or on a chair.

I asked the chap on alto what he uses (that's what I 'borrow' when it's my turn to solo) and he has a Shure beta 57A (I think?) mic with an AER Compact 60 amp.

regards, Phil

 

[Pete Thomas]

philthD wrote:
if you mic'ed your sax into an amp in a big rig situation youd then still have to mic up the amp to get the sound to the desk. guitarists like this because of the way the amp and even the cab colours the sound but i cant see any reason a sax player would want to - thats all i meant by that

They would possibly want to do that if they did not trust the foldback to be adequate.

When I used to do tours on the UK college circuit, we relied on the PA supplied by the venue. Very often the foldback was useless and I couldn't hear myself, so carrying a small amp was very useful. I could have a normal stage mic going through the PA for out front, and my own pick up going through my own on stage keyboard amp just for me and the rest of the band on stage.

Of course often there was a good PA with adequate foldback, this was just a falesafe.

 

[philthd]

a very good point pete

as with so many things its the medium sized set-ups that provide the most problems

so did you mic your amp or just split your mic signal to your private foldback?

 

[Rogerb]

I don't think I have ever seen so much jargon in such a small space (in a sax forum, anyway)..... it's like trying to read a completely alien (to me) language, like, say, Welsh, or one of the other Celtic tongues 😀

(Although I do understand practically all the individual words, but, as Eric Morecambe nearly said "not necessarily in that order"!!)

What's 'foldback'?

Good luck, Phil...how's your Welsh? 😉

 

[phil_edwards]

Hi Roger, it's certainly gone way beyond my original question in its complexity, but I'm happy to let others into my posting for a chat and cuppa' 😉

regards, Phil

 

[Pete Thomas]

Rogerb wrote:
What's 'foldback'?

part of a PA rig. There are "outfront" speakers that go to the audience, and often separate "foldback" speakers for the musicians on stage. usually at the side of the stage and/or as wedge shaped speakers in front pointing up at the player. (Called wedges).

 

[spike]

You might want to consider a small mike mixer with a power monitor box.
I use a similar setup when i need my own monitor system, I have an additional balanced output from a DI box that can be fed to the main mix, since they're separate components i can mix and match to suit the occasion. I'm using 15" jbl eons but that'd be overkill for what you need, there's good small active monitors available really cheaply these days, and with mic. pre-amp and PA speakers there's no problem with the colouring and impedance matching with guitar and keyboard amps.

gruss - spike

 

[phil_edwards]

spike wrote:
........there's good small active monitors available really cheaply these days, and with mic. pre-amp and PA speakers there's no problem with the colouring and impedance matching with guitar and keyboard amps.

Thanks Spike, you got those in laymans terms? Or any pointers to pics/diagrams of examples of how you'd connect that lot?

regards, Phil

 

[spike]

microphone -
into (mic. pre-amplifier or mini-mixer) -
into active monitor speaker box.
(active speaker meaning it has a built in power-amplifier and speaker(s) combined in one box).

You may even be able to get away with microphone straight into an active monitor speaker box, someone else here will surely know.

 

[phil_edwards]

Ahh, getting it now.

The chap I play with has a Shure mic plugged straight into an AER Compact 60 amp. That's the simple set-up I'm after.

regards, Phil

 

[spike]

The AER is an acoustic guitar amp and quite pricey too.
just as an example: when I was in africa i used a cheapo 6 channel mono mixer into an old AC 30 for 3 keyboards and 2 shure mikes for sax and flute/vocals, with a separate output to the main p.a. It proved more than adequate for a few years doing hotels, pubs and clubs.
gruss - spike

 

[phil_edwards]

Yes, I looked at AER's earlier and they are expensive. Something basic is all I'm after to compete with guitars in the same room.

Any idea what power I'll need - I have no concept of what the difference might be between say a 10, a 20, a 30, and a 60watt unit. (I know the technical difference, but what's a useable rating?)

regards, Phil

 

[Pete Thomas]

Somewhere in my loft there is a small stage monitor/practice amp that has a microphone input and also a line input that my wife used when she was a Dirty Blonde. (That's a singing group). If it's any use you can have it in return for a small donation - but I need to check out the wattage and make. As soon as I find it I'll let you know, it might be just what you need.

 

[philthd]

deleted

babbling

 

[phil_edwards]

Thanks Pete (glad you clarified the 'singing group' - this post was about to take a complete new direction)

regards, Phil