Am I going to be ostracised for asking about C Melodies?

[PaulyT]

Can someone tell me about C Melody Saxophones? Playing, as I do, in a rock/blues/pop band and being primarily a geeeetar man I'm just wondering why the C Melody is not more popular.
Why does it seem to be regarded as a bit "funny" or an oddity? I've been looking for one and they are extremely rare second hand and, apparently non existent new!
The type doesn't even get a mention in Mr. Thomas' saxophone buying guide on this very site unless it come under 'what';

"What size instrument?, Sopranino, soprano, alto, tenor, baritone, bass or what? "

I'd have thought that a retailer as big as "saxophones.co.uk" would offer them if they were available but they don't!

Am I doomed to wander the e-highway that is this forum as an outcast - forever seeking the elusive C-Melody or will you clutch me to your bosom as a wayward son of the Sax?

A Merry Honking Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year to you all.

PaulyT

 

[Pete Thomas]

Not at all.

They aren't popular enough for manufacturers to bother, though I do believe there may be some on the market soon.

Some people like them, and they are very useful for when you need to read concert pitch music without transposing.

Problem seems to be they don't have much character to a lot of people.

I'd get one if I found a good mouthpiece/horn combination, but that seems to be the holy grail of C melodies.

You do see them often on ebay, usually Buescher Truetones or Conns. But with modern mouthpieces thety can be very out of tune, and with their own olde mouthpieces they seem to be a bit stuffy. In fact my first ebay purchase was a C melody, I thought it was a tenor.

If I could get one to sound like a slightly higher tenor, or a slightly lower alto, then I'd be happy I think.

We have a couple of C melody owners here though who may jump in and ostracise you (and me).

 

[rhysonsax]

C Melody can sound really nice - listen to Scott Robinson's CD "Melody from the Sky", which is all C Melody and absolutely great:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Melody-Sky-Scott-Robinson/dp/B00004SVHQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1198348901&sr=1-3

Some other players, such as Sir John Dankworth, play the C Melody occasionally and sound good on it. I think that he had a mouthpiece specially made or adapted for him by Geoff Lawton.

I have foolishly collected 3 C Melody saxes: a Buescher, a Conn and a more modern Vito. As Pete says, the aboslute key to them is the mouthpiece. The older mouthpieces tend to sound stuffy and "veiled". The sound can respond to modern tenor or alto mouthpieces, but the tuning usually goes all over the place.

The best mouthpiece I have found for my C Melodys (it works on all of them) is a Morgan, but these will be hard to come by now that Ralph Morgan has died.

I am watching with interest the newly launched and modern design C Melody made in China for "Aqulia sax" in New Zealand http://aquilasax.com/

Reading on SOTW, there have been some problems with horns being damaged on shipping, but if they can get that sorted out, I may have to add to my trio of C Melody saxes that don't get played !

Aquila Sax also sell C Melody mouthpieces in ebonite and in metal. I haven't tried either of them.

And there is also the completely re-designed and handbuilt "Contralto" by Jim Schmidt http://cvip.fresno.com/~js210/contra.html

Rhys

 

[phil_edwards]

Here's some info, with soundclips etc... http://tinyurl.com/35l2hd

regards, Phil

 

[RedBottom]

[No message]

 

[Bobby G]

On a slightly different tack, if you've been playing the sax for a while, and want to play in a bluesy style, the common keys on guitar are not too bad when transposed to saxophone e.g. guitar in A, alto in F#, so it wouldn't be too hard to get into it on alto or tenor.

Then again, get the damn axeman to play in F 😉

 

[Jules]

I'd always been told that tuning of C Melody horns was supposed to be a bit of a nightmare. Length of tubing required to make a C sax vs length of soundwaves invovled. As far as i'd always believed, this is why C Melody horns died out

 

[rhysonsax]

nachoman wrote:
I'd always been told that tuning of C Melody horns was supposed to be a bit of a nightmare. Length of tubing required to make a C sax vs length of soundwaves invovled. As far as i'd always believed, this is why C Melody horns died out

That just doesn't make any sense to me. The wavelength of the soundwave is what determines the length of the cone and the positioning of the toneholes. A decent saxophone could be made in any key, with enough R&D (trial and error) and the right mouthpiece and reed.

Good C Melody horns from the 20s and 30s have just as good tuning as their Bb and Eb counterparts of that period, when played with the right mouthpiece.

Their tone quality seems a bit different to me and I have heard that the C and F family of saxes invented by Adolf Sax had a narrower bore.

Rhys

 

[jonf]

I've just got one. It's a 1924 Conn, in fantastic condition, with modern metal reflector pads. It has a very modern, bright tone when played with the right mouthpiece, in my case a Yanagsawa metal alto piece. Not stuffy at all, and it really is somewhere between a tenor and an alto. Tuning is spot on, as well.

However, Nachoman has a point about tuning. Some modern mouthpieces are all over the place - inconsistently out, sharp and flat, through the scale. I tried all my tenor pieces on it, and none really worked well, as they were all too long to fit on and tune, due to the microtuner getting in the way. The shorter alto ones did tune in well, though.

 

[rhysonsax]

JonF wrote:
However, Nachoman has a point about tuning. Some modern mouthpieces are all over the place - inconsistently out, sharp and flat, through the scale. I tried all my tenor pieces on it, and none really worked well, as they were all too long to fit on and tune, due to the microtuner getting in the way. The shorter alto ones did tune in well, though.

But the fact that they often don't tune well with the wrong mouthpiece (i.e. a Bb tenor or Eb alto) is hardly a fundamental design problem or a criticism of the basic C Melody design. And it can't have been the reason why the C Melody died out.

The right mouthpiece has to have both the right internal volume and the right length from the end of the neck to the tip of the reed, to be well in tune throughout the range.

It's interesting that an alto mouthpiece works better for you, as I would have expected Bb tenor pieces (2 semi-tones away) to be closer than Eb alto pieces (3 semi-tones away). Maybe without the micro-tuner neck, the tenor pieces would tune better.

Let us know how the Aquila Sax metal mouthpiece works out.

Rhys

 

[jonf]

Hi Rhys

You're bang on about the microtuner - long shank tenor pieces just won't go on far enough to tune in. I had expected the tenor ones to be more in tune, and it may be that they would be without the microtuner. I've got one of those cheapy Sharkbite things somewhere, and I'm thinking about lopping a cm off the end of that to see how it tunes in.

I don't think there IS any fundamental design problem with the C Mel. I think they only died out because of a combination of a serious depression in the US and the fact that by the time they were popular, there was loads of band music scored for Eb and Bb. They were really most popular as a 'parlour' instrument, and I guess the growth of radio as mass entertainment also did for them. Whatever, I think they're great.

 

[jonf]

Update on my last post. Got the cheapy tenor Sharkbite mouthpiece out. They actually play really well for the thirty quid or so they cost. Sliced a cm off the end with the trusty Dremel, and bunged it on the C Mel. Brilliant - punchy and bright, and in tune as well. So, a decent Conn C Mel, in good nick with modern pads, and a short modern tenor piece really does work, and is genuinly somewhere between a tenor and an alto. Top fun.

 

[blues_growler]

"extremely rare secondhand" ?

I would have thought that if you posted "WTB C Melody" Under Horns Wanted on SOTW your email would melt down. It's a buyer's market.

http://www.cmelodysax.co.uk/

Two currently on UK eBay, often more.
Twelve currently US eBay, often 25 plus.