Advice please?

Bobby G

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Wonderful Welwyn Garden City, Herts
I put this in the beginners section as in this respect I am a bit of a beginner; I'm going to a tryout soon for a band which is forming, playing mainly jazz standards with a possible leaning towards blues and '8-in-the-bar rock'. The contact I've had so far is only by e-mail, but the bloke doesn't seem to be put off by my lack of reading ability - he says it's going to be mainly for fun, maybe get some paid gigs or charity gigs etc.

Any advice, anyone?
 
Fake books sound like a good idea, I can follow chords and hopefully learn, or even learn to read, the heads, so that should start me off. Much as I enjoy the jamming (and would keep at it even if I get in this band), I think the slightly higher level of discipline or self-discipline involved in being in a band could be good for my playing.

Cheers, Bob

p.s. Griff, PM sent
 
Hey Bob, get in there!

I'm trying out for a newly formed jazz/fusion band (but the other personnel are seasoned players) next week, they want an altoist. As you know, I've been playing gigs etc. just to backing tracks for years and only earlier this year joined a concert band - totally different to a concert band of course!

Problem is the rehearsals are out in the sticks - I'll give it a go though. The three pieces mentioned to me they'll give me the sheets for - and recordings if I need them - are Average White Band's Pick Up The Pieces (I've heard it but don't have it), Sanborn's Chicago Song (I have it on a Sanborn CD but never paid lots of attention to it) and Joe Sample/The Crusaders' Put It Where You Want It - which I don't know at all!
 
General info -
the dots for "Pick up the pieces" are freely available from the AWB official website. Thankyou very much AWB.

Play with all the bands you can -
it can be very challenging as well as motivating.

gruss - spike
 
Thanks Spike, I now have Pick Up The Pieces as suggested and also I found a transcription of Chicago Song. The latter is in concert, so I've pencilled in the alto notes!

Mind you, the band may play it in a totally different key, we'll see.

Spike, problem is in my neck of the woods, there are zero opportunities to play in any kind of ensemble. For concert bands, the one in my town expects grade 8 minimum - even though I've been playing music since I was 8 (I'm now 40), sax for over twelve years and teaching it for over four. So I travel to a concert band that has no problem with ungraded (i.e. not snooty) players.

I have advertised in local music shops and online, to form my own ensemble, any kind, from a sax-piano duo, to jazz quartet to concert band but get no interest at all.

Oops sorry Bob, don't want to hijack your thread!
 
Quite all right SP, most threads get diverted anyway, usually by me!

Maybe I'm moving in the wrong circles, but most of the bands around here seem to be of the younger rock-based type where there's no demand for horns, although having gone to a lot of jams in the last couple of years I'm meeting a lot of jazzers, r'n'b and blues players etc. Up until now, opportunities to play in any kind of band, or even sitting in at gigs have been few and far between, so I really should give this band a shot - I suspect it's at the formation stage which could be better in a way, in terms of Spike's phrase 'challenging and motivating'. At least they don't seem to be put off by my lack of reading ability, so maybe they're intending to play at the easier end of the spectrum. Unless it's going to be totally freeform 😉

BTW, what is a 'concert band'?
 
Bob, a concert band is also known as a wind band - it consists of the woodwind and brass instruments - clarinets, saxes, oboes, flutes, trumpets, trombones, french horns, etc. etc.

The music ensembles like this tend to play is the totally opposite of what we've been talking about here - it is light classics, some pop tunes, some film music etc.
 
legal and illegal versions of the same thing - though the terms are pretty much interchangeable


its a book where tunes are given in the form of the dots with the chord changes written above them

most these days are legal and fairly accurate - many old ones are less reliable
 
Popular theory goes that the first fake book was begun by students at Berklee and being transcribed from recordings and reproduced, mistakes and all (hey, mistakes makes it J-A-Z-Z!) and were illegal, as no royalties were paid to the owners of the music.

So now 'real' books are published and as said above, the terms are interchangeable, real and fake.

There's a CD Rom doing the circuit which contains twelve or so different real and fake books as PDF files. This in itself is of course illegal.
 
Yeah, but where can you *get*one?...only kidding...really 😀

I helped make a mini-fake-book for a friend who started a little band when we were in Saudi Arabia in the early 70s...sheet music of that kind wasn't exactly readily available.
It was funny really.... the piano player would sprangle a phrase, and i would say, "No it goes like this..." and then my pal, the trumpeter/band-leader would write-down the dots!
I couldn't read music, or play an instrument, but did have a good ear & memory for a tune 🙂
 
Hi Saxplayer67,
There is also a 'Pick Up The Pieces' transcription in the Sher Music 'Standards' Real Book, Skip Spratt @ saxshed.com has a transcription of Kenny G's version with Dave Sanborn, I think there is a 'Put It Where You Want It' transcription in Sher Music Real Book Vol. 1 (AWB do a cover of this on their White Album, I think) and Chicago Song in a couple of Sanborn transcription books and also is included in Jamey Abesold's Sanborn Collection Vol. 97?98? perhaps.
I hope this information helps.
Regards,
Greg Strange.
 
Well, following up on the above, I went to the rehearsal of this newly-forming fusion band. They were friendly guys (keys, drums, bass, lead electric guitar), though the leader (keyboardist) was a little detached.

The village hall they practise in is about 35 - 40 minutes drive, in the middle of nowhere, no street lighting and would be a pig to get to in winter.

Anyway, as I predicted, these guys played from knowledge of chords and all by ear, as most outfits do (they are not readers - the keys can read a bit) and of course, all in concert pitch. They started with Chicago Song and gave me the Aebersold sheet - which isn't the same length as the recording (oh, this band likes things to be just like the record) but at least available in Eb. I actually used the handwritten transposition I did myself from a concert pitch transcription of the recording I found online. They put me on a mic - though I never mic my sax and indeed, even with their amplified instruments, it wasn't really necessary IMO, I was plenty audible.

I played the sax part okay, after all, it's the same thing over and over but when it came to my 32 bar solo, I of course couldn't play exactly like the Sanborn funk thing, so just did my own far-out thing. I just can't count bars whilst improvising, no matter how I try. So I did what I could, the number of run throughs we had.

Put It Where You Want It, they gave me the fake book of it - concert pitch - so I scribbled the transposition out of part of the tune (from my handy ready reckoner) but having never played it before, I didn't do much and they didn't stick to the overall geography of the fake book and I sat out on the soloing.

Then they tried a tune without a title by the keyboardist. The 'sheet music' was just a list of the chord names, the bass note names and a list of when Into/Verse/Chorus came in - again in concert pitch - and one was expected to play the tune, when it wasn't demonstrated. I got him to demo his themes but it's not easy to pick out a tune you've never heard before (though I've played my own tunes invented on-the-spot and transcribed many times).

The bassist - who also wasn't playing all the lines - had to go, so without him, they ran through Pick Up The Pieces - I handled the repetetive (and boring!) riffs okay but again, the solo parts got me.

I'd explained on the phone that sheet music is my crutch, even though I can readily play many tunes without music, I often have it in front of me (when playing to backing tracks) and of course in concert band (and big bands, for instance), sheet music is de rigeur. I explained this again. I had been playing, when warming up, St. Thomas - of course by ear - so they keyboardist found the tune in his fake book, to play along (the shoe was on the other foot now!). Of course, it was a different key to the one I play it in, so I about got it right. I asked the drummer (who usually plays thrash metal) to give me a calypso and he didn't know what it was.

I then asked for a swing rhythm (having to explain 'ten-to-ten') and I played just with drums on East of the Sun, in my semi-Bird style.

I may have been playing sax for over twelve years - and playing music since the seventies - and teaching it for over four (where I stress my students should learn all their scales, arpeggios and play without music when memorised!) but I know I will never be able to make that intuitive leap to the state needed for a band like this, no matter how hard I shed. I cannot recall all scales, modes, chords nor able to transpose on-the-spot, especially when playing without music or counting bars when improvising. My brain is just not hard wired for it, full stop. People love my playing, I won that busking festival in the summer, so shouldn't that be good enough?

So I'm gonna phone the guy tonight and say I just can't cut it (they loved my tone etc. and I must stress they were not unkind at all about my soloing problems, quite the opposite in fact) and resign myself to playing solo to backing tracks for the rest of my natural and with concert band. I'm playing solo gigs and teaching every other night anyhow, so I'll have my Wednesdays back!

Bob, hope you band went okay!
 
if im counting bars i know im lost - its far more about getting a feel for the form


it always a bit sad when you try to set up a band and it just wont gel - its happened to me many times (and often a band wont last an entire practice - i worry a little about my record on this) - but it just makes it all the more special when it does click. dont give up on ever playing with a band again just because youre giving up on playing with this band again
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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