Saxophones Conn 150th Anniversary Alto Saxophone

[JayeNM]

And maybe without an inappropriate reverb.

Yeah that is dumb.

Why are they layering that on top of the horn's tone ?

Whenever I hear that, my mind immediately goes to "OK, is that the horn we are hearing or the mixdown engineering ?"

So whenever that shows up on recordings ostensibly intended to display sound/tonality etc., it invites a bit of skepticism....

 

[PigSquealer]

Yeah that is dumb.

Why are they layering that on top of the horn's tone ?

Whenever I hear that, my mind immediately goes to "OK, is that the horn we are hearing or the mixdown engineering ?"

So whenever that shows up on recordings ostensibly intended to display sound/tonality etc., it invites a bit of skepticism....

Any mixing or sound adjustments completely defeats the purpose of the test. It’s like fake news.

 

[lig]

It would appear that the hedge fund owner of Conn-Selmer, John Paulson is a CONNartist. He is a big political donor with a net worth of 4 billion dollars. And completely full of it.

He is closing the Ohio plant and will be offshoring to China.

He supported the tariffs and justified the higher costs to consumers by stating that it'll spur manufacturing in the US.

A quote from him on offshoring:

“We can’t have American producers closing American factories and offshoring. We need to protect American jobs and protect American manufacturing,”


Oopsie. What a dishonest hypocrite.

To keep this thing on topic I actually liked the horn and would have considered a regular production model but knowing where the money would be going there is a zero percent chance I'll be getting one now.

Very disappointing news.

 

[JayeNM]

It would appear that the hedge fund owner of Conn-Selmer, John Paulson is a CONNartist. He is a big political donor with a net worth of 4 billion dollars. And completely full of it.

He is closing the Ohio plant and will be offshoring to China.

He supported the tariffs and justified the higher costs to consumers by stating that it'll spur manufacturing in the US.

A quote from him on offshoring:

“We can’t have American producers closing American factories and offshoring. We need to protect American jobs and protect American manufacturing,”


Oopsie. What a dishonest hypocrite.

To keep this thing on topic I actually liked the horn and would have considered a regular production model but knowing where the money would be going there is a zero percent chance I'll be getting one now.

Very disappointing news.

IOW he is acting completely normally by US corporate standards and business practices.

The big thing , back to the horn (but thank you for a bit of perspective on this - I support no company with immoral business practices, sorta hard to sift thru them all, and try my best not to consume from those )

But yeah, literally Conn-Selmer JUST pulled out of US manufacturing permanently, albeit it is the final brass plant they are shutting down - nevertheless the timing of this is sorta laughable...

re: the horn, it again becomes a question of, OK so it may be quite decent, or even quite good....but given the current domestic economic situation combined with the reality that an Eastman or Keilwerth or Borgan, not to mention a brand new Yani or Yama 82z cost less...I am not certain even given a price reduction of mass production starts, whether this would be anything other than a boutique model (by a conglomerate corporation) of relatively little attraction....

 

[mark_addy]

It would appear that the hedge fund owner of Conn-Selmer, John Paulson is a CONNartist. He is a big political donor with a net worth of 4 billion dollars. And completely full of it.

He is closing the Ohio plant and will be offshoring to China.

He supported the tariffs and justified the higher costs to consumers by stating that it'll spur manufacturing in the US.

A quote from him on offshoring:

“We can’t have American producers closing American factories and offshoring. We need to protect American jobs and protect American manufacturing,”


Oopsie. What a dishonest hypocrite.

To keep this thing on topic I actually liked the horn and would have considered a regular production model but knowing where the money would be going there is a zero percent chance I'll be getting one now.

Very disappointing news.

We had the same kind of thing here around Brexit, where noted UK industrialists Dyson (who moved most of their production to the far East, although there is still some R&D in the UK) and Ratcliffe (manufacturing 'iconic' (I hate that usage) UK-associated vehicles that look like older Landrovers...in France) supported the UK by moving production elsewhere. It's nice to keep an eye on firms doing this, though there is SFA one can do about it beyond voting with one's wallet, as you point out.

That weird bell brace looks like a Friday afternoon cart-before-horse marketing meeting to me. 'What terms do players use about older Conn instruments that we might be able to latch onto?' . 'Cross-bar - what's that?'. 'Maybe we could add a distinctive brace to this one, how much would that cost?'.

 

[turf3]

I'm still betting that when someone actually takes measurements they'll find that this is yet another fine product of Private Equity Engineering - fire all the engineers, have the junior marketing staff come up with a suite of cosmetic enhancements they can slap on it, order a crate of them from China, and sell it as a "Limited Special Edition".

If this thing is acoustically any different than the general run of essentially-fungible Far Eastern Super Action 80 copies, I'll be beyond astonished.

 

[lig]

I'm still betting that when someone actually takes measurements they'll find that this is yet another fine product of Private Equity Engineering - fire all the engineers, have the junior marketing staff come up with a suite of cosmetic enhancements they can slap on it, order a crate of them from China, and sell it as a "Limited Special Edition".

If this thing is acoustically any different than the general run of essentially-fungible Far Eastern Super Action 80 copies, I'll be beyond astonished.

There are larger bore Taiwanese horns out there with double arms on the bell keys already.

I’m fairly certain this is a variation on a theme perhaps with a few specs changed along with the flimsy bell body “brace”

 

[Woodpad]

I'm still betting that when someone actually takes measurements they'll find that this is yet another fine product of Private Equity Engineering - fire all the engineers, have the junior marketing staff come up with a suite of cosmetic enhancements they can slap on it, order a crate of them from China, and sell it as a "Limited Special Edition".

If this thing is acoustically any different than the general run of essentially-fungible Far Eastern Super Action 80 copies, I'll be beyond astonished.

Seems to be right, this is not a project to make a better saxophone but to make a not to bad one without offending anyone. Junior marketentsters are used to work on a Do Not Offend Anyone project. Specialists on the other hand have very bad DNOA skills.

 

[turf3]

There are larger bore Taiwanese horns out there with double arms on the bell keys already.

I’m fairly certain this is a variation on a theme perhaps with a few specs changed along with the flimsy bell body “brace”

Double arms on a bell key is one piece of brass more, soldered to the parts. No meaning.

As to "larger bore", as always, in God we trust; all others bring data. Measurements, please. Up and down the whole cone is required.

 

[lig]

Double arms on a bell key is one piece of brass more, soldered to the parts. No meaning.

As to "larger bore", as always, in God we trust; all others bring data. Measurements, please. Up and down the whole cone is required.

lol... I'm just saying I agree with you. There's probably an Asian horn out there that the Connfirmation is based on.

Might have a few tweaks like the bell brace but I wouldn't be suprised if the wire key guards just mated up to a generic SA80 copy mounting points etc.

I haven't literally measured the bore of my P. Mauriat for example but they explicitly state that it does have a larger bore and the roundness of the bottom end imo and the overall darker timbre seem to bear that claim out.

Good enough for me. I'm not going to get into the weeds on this and start measuring all over the place.

It either plays/sounds good or it doesn't.

 

[PigSquealer]

Ryan Lillywhite Sent me this link a few weeks back. @helen site wasn’t working at the time so I didn’t post it. It’s working now.

The new CONN CAS811 | The New Bassic Sax 🎷

The new Conn CAS811 alto sax is the first pro sax produced by the Co. on American soil in over 50 years. Read what those who were involved with it have to say.

bassicsax.com

 

[Grumps]

Yikes! I forgot how ugly it was.

 

[jonf]

I wonder how much that extended advertisement for an overpriced, badly finished, cynically marketed item cost......?

 

[turf3]

I wonder how much that extended advertisement for an overpriced, badly finished, cynically marketed item cost......?

The thing is, an ad campaign is a one-time expense. You pay for it, you put it in "operating expenses - advertising" and you're done. Hiring engineers and training them and paying them while they design stuff and test it is a long term proposition, and it goes on quarter after quarter while the PE management is tapping their feet more and more impatiently and wanting to know why the quarterly numbers aren't meeting the target yet.

And, of course, the engineers have a tendency to speak truth to power, so they'll say things like "you can't claim that a darker finish gives a darker sound" or "large bore doesn't mean what you think it does" or even just "we have exactly zero test data so I'm not going to claim that".

Thus, Private Equity Engineering: fire all the engineers, have the junior marketeers come up with a suite of cosmetic enhancements, engage an advertising firm to make an ad campaign complete with obscure famous professional saxophonists gushing all over the new thing (presented in such a way that it makes the ordinary musician feel like a chump for not knowing who these obscure famous endorsers are), buy a crate of them from China made to the cosmetic specs, and sell 'em as "Special Limited Edition". Yeah, limited to the 250 pcs. you had to buy from the factory to get the discount on your custom cosmetic features.

"Hey, look, Arthur N. Other the famous saxophonist says this new horn is the bee's knees!"
"Who's A.N.Other?"
"What, don't you know who he is? Why, he's a famous saxophonist who says this new horn is the best thing since sliced bread! And, it has electrolytes!"

 

[pgboyd]

And, it has electrolytes!"

I’m definitely missing something with my current alto. This is probably it😊

 

[turf3]

It's what altos crave!

 

[JayeNM]

Ryan Lillywhite Sent me this link a few weeks back. @helen site wasn’t working at the time so I didn’t post it. It’s working now.

Welllllll..........i was actually hoping for something more concrete. I mean, yes it got pre-strafed pretty good but ALSO in those "keyboard warrior" criticisms resided, as the common asterisk: "but it will be interesting to hear from someone who actually playtests one" or some iteration thereof...

So That was sorta left out of this entry, IMHO. Next, this comment:

 

[JayeNM]

An interesting modus operandi...talk to the people involved in creating and marketing the product ?

Some info can certainly be gained, but how likely is it to yeild an objective opinion/feedback on the product ?

In this entry, all we get are two opinions...one from a shop owner who wants to sell some of these, and another from a guy who developed the product.

I was hoping for more than this, actually.....it doesn't provide an objective opinion. A shop owner and r&d person are not going to provide that (respectfully).

 

[jonf]

Also interesting to criticise those who offer an opinion (in response to the bloated marketing puff) on this product as 'keyboard warriors' who are 'flogging a dead horse'. Or, to put it another way, experienced sax players who can spot naff styling, appalling engraving, ludicrous pricing and shameless trading on the heritage of saxes sold a century ago, even without being permitted to try the thing.

 

[turf3]

Also interesting to criticise those who offer an opinion (in response to the bloated marketing puff) on this product as 'keyboard warriors' who are 'flogging a dead horse'. Or, to put it another way, experienced sax players who can spot naff styling, appalling engraving, ludicrous pricing and shameless trading on the heritage of saxes sold a century ago, even without being permitted to try the thing.

It's not just about being an experienced saxophone player. One of the advantages of having passed that half-century mark is that you're a lot more likely to have seen LOTS of "engineering by ad campaign" and other versions of companies trying to fob off the same old same old as something "New!!!! and Improved!!!"

For example:

"Great new Look! Same Great Product!"
"Designed in the US, made in China"
"Gluten Free!" [ a product that never contains gluten]
"Four out of Five Doctors!"

and so on, and so on, and so on...

So, coming back to saxophones, for example, I can look at this "Conn" and see that the keyguard mounting points are located for the standard Selmer-copy sheet metal guards, which is why the wire ones look so weird; they didn't want to have to change the fixturing for soldering on the mounts so they designed the guards to fit the existing hard points. I can see that a different color of lacquer, a different octave key shape, don't mean a thing.

The almost complete absence of any numerical data, the flooding of the airwaves instead with semi-well-known-ish endorsers clearly reading scripted points, the reflexive anger expressed at anyone who dares to doubt (rather than actually presenting information) - well, let me say this.

If ConnSelmer or whatever they're calling themselves this week, WANTED to give the impression that they took yet another China made essentially fungible Super Action 80 copy, that can be imported to the US for something around $500, changed a few cosmetic touches, and jacked the price to $7000 in a cynical ploy hoping to snare some unaware gobs into buying this thing - well, they'd do pretty much EXACTLY what they're doing. ("Bach Brass"? "Conn-o-Sonic Process"? Give me a BREAK.)