Playing the saxophone What are the unique aspects to playing blues compared with other genres?

[turf3]

I would not call In The Mood a blues

I I I I
IV IV I I
V V I I
The defense rests.

 

[turf3]

And now we get, once again, to the THREE meanings of "blues".

1) A (usually) 12 bar form, three legged, call and response. THIS is what is meant when someone calls out "Let's play this and that - it's 12 bar blues in F, with a quick 4".

2) A tonal flavor usually created by applying flat 3s and 5s to a dominant 7 chord, which can be applied in all kinds of places.

3) A genre of music, consisting of a large repertoire of standard tunes, lots of "floating verses", mostly of that three legged form, and whose practicioners make a point of insisting that what they're playing is NOT jazz and is NOT rock and roll.

"In the Mood" is totally a 12 bar blues form. It is not one of the "standard tunes" of the genre as in definition #3.

If you insist on mixing up these three meanings of the word, then you're never going to have any kind of clarity in this discussion.

 

[Pete Effamy]

But…

As Pete initially said; it’s what and how a player plays over the progression, and what is happening with the rest of the band.

Yes, In The Mood is A blues progression, but it isn’t what we’ve come to term THE blues - as played by blues players.

In fact, earlier talk of Parker - yes, he played over tunes that were numerous in standard 12-bar blues progressions - but the way he played leads us to call him a bebop player.

And going back to In The Mood - did Brian Setzer cover it ? If he did, it would not sound like Miller. Why ? Because the execution is totally different - and very apparent.

It’s recognition of the above that allows you to play working man club gigs and not be lynched.

B.B. King is known as a blues player. If you have him playing Giant Steps it doesn’t make him a jazz / bebop player, unless he changes his style.

And yes, I’ve heard the argument about blurred lines when it comes to pigeon - holing players, but these examples are very different in execution.

 

[Grumps]

If only Glenn Miller has survived... but not his music.

 

[cappers]

If only Glenn Miller has survived... but not his music.

Is that Spike Milligan speaking?😂
I read that at Peter Seller’s funeral In The Mood was played as his coffin entered the crematorium. Spike et al were into Trad Jazz and hated US swing. Apparently they were in fits of giggles when it was played .

 

[LostCircuits]

When is a blues not a blues? Even if it is the bluest blues you ever heard?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6OlJqV1rQ

 

[Pete Effamy]

If only Glenn Miller has survived... but not his music.

Put some different ears on and give it another listen.

 

[cappers]

In the Mood....I love it and that Big Band sound. Pop of it's day, made people dance and be happy in those gloomy prewar times (1939). My parents always perked up when they heard it!

 

[JSL]

Yeah, pretty hard to hear much of a blues feel in 'In the Mood'. It is a 12 bar blues form but has a different feel. I also think it's entirely possible to infuse a blues sound in a non-blues progression.

 

[cappers]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K1KVeguOzw

 

[Pete Thomas]

I I I I
IV IV I I
V V I I
The defense rests.

Do you mean a blues is defined by the fact that it has those chords? Fair enough if that is your definition but you quoted my post that was about what I would call a blues. No amount of argument can deny the truth of that statement because it is purely my opinion.

 

[JSL]

I'd also point out that plenty of rock tunes have I-IV-V changes and many (most, imo) don't sound anything like a blues. And otoh, Bird could play bebop, with plenty of substitute chords and make it sound like a blues. Of course, I'm not by any means saying he did that with everything he played. And he could take a 12-bar blues, use all kinds of bebop language over it, yet still infuse it with a blues feel.

Maybe the unique aspects of what makes it a blues are somewhat difficult to pin down. It's still worthwhile to give it a go and find some 'devices' that will help you get that sound. In terms of note choices, the b3, b5, and b7 have been mentioned, for good reason.

 

[JayeNM]

I'll just put a couple of things here -

Slathering the blues scale all over these would NOT work well.

I'll put this out here 😉

12bars, 7th chords and minor chords....1-4-5

How would playing a solo for two or three choruses using a blues scale NOT work here ? In the sense of producing a nice sounding solo ? Methinks with decent phrasing and a bit of emotion, it would work perfectly fine...

Respectfully, that is getting a bit too Jazz Precious, isn't it ?

 

[JayeNM]

I would not call In The Mood a blues

Swing tune with blues progression.

Sorta like calling this a blues...it isn't, and is...but , sorta like above, few would refer to it as a Blues Tune:

View: https://youtu.be/-a9kOCHYZIw?si=UmwvOHVf5KHpJR4b

 

[JSL]

How wouldn't playing a solo for two or three choruses using a blues scale NOT work here ?

It would work, depending entirely on how well you used the blues scale. However, as pointed out already, over several choruses it might be more effective to mix in playing over the changes. That gives you more to work with and would add interest.

 

[turf3]

Maybe it is "too jazz precious".

In my experience people who're playing SNC are likely playing more diatonically, but it all depends on what's happening at the moment. So I'll conditionally withdraw the statement that "the blues scale" won't work on SNC and just say "there could be a stylistic clash".

Better?

 

[turf3]

At any rate, we keep running up against what appears to be an insistence that "Blues" only applies to one or at most two of the three common meanings, so actual dialogue seems to have run out of steam.

 

[JayeNM]

My issue is with teachers who imply that "the blues scale" is some kind of universal key to improvising...

That'd be bad...but that is just a bad teacher....

 

[JSL]

Maybe it is "too jazz precious".

In my experience people who're playing SNC are likely playing more diatonically, but it all depends on what's happening at the moment. So I'll conditionally withdraw the statement that "the blues scale" won't work on SNC and just say "there could be a stylistic clash".

Better?

You make a good point regarding whether it fits 'stylistically'. I'd suggest on a jazz tune like SNC, it would be far more effective to play through the changes, adding in some blue notes for spice. And it's always important to take what the rest of the band is doing into account.

 

[JayeNM]

At any rate, we keep running up against what appears to be an insistence that "Blues" only applies to one or at most two of the three common meanings

Meaning , imho = a particular "feel" combined with a particular "common" progression/structure (I.e. 12-bar, 8-bar, 16-bar, etc)....

....absent of the feel aspect (In the Mood, Kiss) it becomes arguable that it can be called a blues tune...imho.