Playing the saxophone What are the unique aspects to playing blues compared with other genres?

[LostCircuits]

There has been a ton of interesting and good stuff in this thread but there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I don't think there is any genre of music where so many people think they can play (the blues), wailing and squealing (present company pigs excluded) on vocals or any instrument from out of tune acoustic guitars to blues harps and pretend they are the greatest.

It's the perceived simplicity that lends them to self-appointed stardom and hell, some even develop a following by growing dreadlocks (wrong genre), writing originals by changing one or two words in the lyrics of someone else's song. Most of those are short-lived (thank God) but some outlive their novelty welcome.

Granted, there are some punk and underground bands and experimental music that is not for everybody but those are typically in a different league.

I know this is a little off topic as well but it is an unfortunate reality. I love blues, I have played blues more than any other music throughout my life but sometimes I am wondering.

 

[Woodpad]

And yet in that case some people would not recognise that as blues.

When I hear blues my taste buds react with a phantom taste of beer. Probably a conditioned reflex.

 

[JSL]

Also, playing blues scale licks over the IV7 chord in bars 5 & 6, while sticking to the chord changes otherwise, can be very effective (Bird did this fairly often).

I quoted myself above because, for clarity, I should add that the blues scale licks played over that IV7 chord should be from the blues scale of the tonic. For example, in the key of C, over the F7 chord, use the C blues scale (minor pentatonic with b5 added). I'm pretty sure everyone on here knows that but just wanted to be certain.

There has been a ton of interesting and good stuff in this thread but there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I don't think there is any genre of music where so many people think they can play (the blues), wailing and squealing (present company pigs excluded) on vocals or any instrument from out of tune acoustic guitars to blues harps and pretend they are the greatest.

A lot of truth to this, LostCircuits. But I think it might also apply, at least to an extent, in rock music as well. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of competent, excellent blues players out there. And it's all the more enjoyable to hear them. I've been lucky enough to know and play with some really good blues guitarists (and yeah, even harp players). Also, as bonus for us horn players, these guitarists can, and do, play in various keys including Bb, F, Ab, C, G, etc. as well as the usual E & A. I don't mind playing in any of those keys. And of course, we do have to be comfortable in E, A, D, and all the other keys.

This hasn't been mentioned yet, but a good rhythm section (bass & drums) is absolutely essential!

One other very important aspect of playing the blues that hardly needs pointing out but should still be mentioned is to listen closely to great blues players and work on emulating what you hear. See how they play the changes and also how they use that blues scale. A lot to learn there. Listen to horn players obviously, but also to guitarists and other instruments as well.

Oh yeah, one more thing that may be unique to the blues: The extensive use of dominant chords. So, learn as much 'dominant chord vocabulary' as possible, in all 12 keys.

 

[Targa]

I quoted myself above because, for clarity, I should add that the blues scale licks played over that IV7 chord should be from the blues scale of the tonic. For example, in the key of C, over the F7 chord, use the C blues scale (minor pentatonic with b5 added). I'm pretty sure everyone on here knows that but just wanted to be certain.

No.

 

[JayeNM]

... wailing and squealing on vocals or any instrument.... and pretend they are the greatest

In my experience this dynamic is omnipresent across most contemporary music genres.....😳

 

[JSL]

No.

I'm assuming you are saying "no" to the idea that everyone on here knows you can use a C blues scale phrase the IV (F7). Or are you saying "no" you can't play a blues scale lick over the IV chord?

 

[LostCircuits]

In my experience this dynamic is omnipresent across most contemporary music genres.....😳

True, to a certain degree. But there are shades. I haven't heard similar levels of incompetence in, let's say rap, it would immediately elicit some comments like "Yo bro, yo think yo gangsta but yo mama can do betta. go home and practice before ya come back!"

But you said most, so you may be right.

 

[Targa]

I'm assuming you are saying "no" to the idea that everyone on here knows you can use a C blues scale phrase the IV (F7). Or are you saying "no" you can't play a blues scale lick over the IV chord?

The former, quite possibly everyone but me knows it.

 

[Targa]

True, to a certain degree. But there are shades. I haven't heard similar levels of incompetence in, let's say rap, it would immediately elicit some comments like "Yo bro, yo think yo gangsta but yo mama can do betta. go home and practice before ya come back!"

But you said most, so you may be right.

I note you censored the adjective which would accompany every other word.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The former, quite possibly everyone but me knows it.

I suspect you are probably not the only one.

 

[Woodpad]

One other very important aspect of playing the blues that hardly needs pointing out but should still be mentioned is to listen closely to great blues players and work on emulating what you hear. See how they play the changes and also how they use that blues scale. A lot to learn there. Listen to horn players obviously, but also to guitarists and other instruments as well.

There are a lot question answer structures in blues. To my surprise some musicians in Amsterdam play blues where questions can be answered by a new question.

 

[Pete Thomas]

To my surprise some musicians in Amsterdam play blues where questions can be answered by a new question.

Is this unique to Amsterdam do you think?

 

[LostCircuits]

Is this unique to Amsterdam do you think?

No, it's very common in Reeuwijk, too. And the low notes are below sea level but the Muddy Waters there are not really blue.

 

[Woodpad]

Is this unique to Amsterdam do you think?

Never heard it by other blues musicians, but it can be found in other types of music.

 

[JSL]

The former, quite possibly everyone but me knows it.

Well, then maybe it's good I brought it up. And I suspect there may be others who didn't know it either so I'll clarify it a bit more if it might help.

As already mentioned, you can play blues scale licks based on the tonic throughout the entire blues form, regardless of which chords are being played. So, it can obviously be played over the IV7 chord. But there's a more important point I'd make. Rather than play 2 or 3 choruses using only the blues scale, you can mix it up with playing the changes. So, one way to go is to play over the I7 chord using dominant chord vocab, then hit a blues scale phrase over the IV7 chord, returning to playing the changes over the remaining 6 bars. It's just one way of mixing in the blues scale material without overdoing it. Although effective use of the blues scale throughout can still sound good.

It's also not uncommon to play the changes on the I7 and IV7 chords, then using a blues scale lick over the V7-IV7 turnaround. Some head arrangements use this technique. As in the video clip below. Listen to the head where he plays a blues scale lick on V-IV.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA49Nkq5sgQ

 

[Targa]

Well, then maybe it's good I brought it up. And I suspect there may be others who didn't know it either so I'll clarify it a bit more if it might help.

As already mentioned, you can play blues scale licks based on the tonic throughout the entire blues form, regardless of which chords are being played. So, it can obviously be played over the IV7 chord. But there's a more important point I'd make. Rather than play 2 or 3 choruses using only the blues scale, you can mix it up with playing the changes. So, one way to go is to play over the I7 chord using dominant chord vocab, then hit a blues scale phrase over the IV7 chord, returning to playing the changes over the remaining 6 bars. It's just one way of mixing in the blues scale material without overdoing it. Although effective use of the blues scale throughout can still sound good.

It's also not uncommon to play the changes on the I7 and IV7 chords, then using a blues scale lick over the V7-IV7 turnaround. Some head arrangements use this technique. As in the video clip below. Listen to the head where he plays a blues scale lick on V-IV.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA49Nkq5sgQ

Thanks but I can never take in theory, after a few words my attenti………oo look a sparrow…..

 

[JSL]

Thanks but I can never take in theory, after a few words my attenti………oo look a sparrow…..

Yeah, I hear you, but we aren't really delving too deeply into theory here. Just some of the basics.

And the head to that version of "Twistin' the Jug" that I posted doesn't really illustrate playing the changes. It's entirely based on the minor pentatonic and using a blues scale lick (adding the b5) on the V7-IV7 turnaround. The funky rhythmic element, mostly, along with note choice, is what makes it effective.

 

[Woodpad]

Thanks but I can never take in theory, after a few words my attenti………oo look a sparrow…..

Approach it with baby steps, otherwise the sparrow will fly away.

 

[turf3]

@Turf please explain the above for a novice.

My teacher and band director advised me to learn arpeggios and chord tones and imrovise using those as a basis and adding notes for colour and movement.
Other schools of thought I've seen suggest that beginners stick to pentatonic or blues scale notes as they are a safer bet. Can one not use them and add colour using other notes?

Apologies if this diverts away from 'What are the blues?'

There is a place for the notes of the blues scale. What happens though is that it's presented as a one size fits all approach, to get people improvising without having to take on the whole burden of chords, scales, and harmony. What sounds good when used sparingly over the three dom 7 chords of a basic blues progression, just sounds amateurish and bad when applied constantly to everything. That's a bush league approach. Not going to work on "Autumn Leaves", or, for that matter, even on actual blues progressions like Straight no Chaser, or Nows the Time, or any number of other tunes that deviate from the I7, IV7, V7 pattern.

This my comment that overuse of the blues scale is like taking your plate with steak, broccoli, potato, carrots and peas and just pouring ketchup all over it. Keep the ketchup for your French fries.

 

[cappers]

Got it. Thanks for the reply @turf3 I like the ketchup analogy!