Intonation Device for playing in tune?

[Pete Thomas]

Phunk2 appears a bit sharp on the first alto note. But since everything is relative, maybe the band is flat?

The band isn't flat as its mostly virtual MIDI instruments.

The second one is in fact bang on in tune with a tuner. The first one is quite flat. In the original thread most people preferred that one it is actually 30 cents flat, I tried other takes and that one is what I preferred although “technically” it is very flat compared with the bass and organ.

 

[mrblackbat]

Ears are far better than tuner.

 

[LostCircuits]

The band isn't flat as its mostly virtual MIDI instruments.

The second one is in fact bang on in tune with a tuner. The first one is quite flat. In the original thread most people preferred that one it is actually 30 cents flat, I tried other takes and that one is what I preferred although “technically” it is very flat compared with the bass and organ.

I suspected that much, otherwise you would not have posted the comparison.

It's a good example of complex auditory encoding or auditory illusion. In the visual world, we all know about optical illusions because they are static and easy to replicate and quantify. Like you have to small bar and the large bar and if you measure them, they are actually identical.

But the interactions of sounds in the auditory system are far less well understood. different frequencies are mapped to different areas of the cochlea but there is a lot of aliasing and interference going on.

 

[LostCircuits]

Ears are far better than tuner.

Elephant Ears GIF - Elephant Ears Dumbo - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[Pete Thomas]

It's a good example of complex auditory encoding or auditory illusion

It is indeed complex. In this case it’s basically what I’d call blues intonation though. With the voice and instruments such as a saxophone blue notes can be varying degrees of flatness. The so-called blues scale contains notes that are flattened by a semitone but that is a sort of construct and not something blues musicians actually invented or thought about.

But in a different context of for example unison saxophones - if one was bang on and the other 30 cents then we’d all be complaining I suspect.

I should actually doing a take of the same thing with say 50 cents or more flat and see how it goes.

I’ve done plenty of transcribed where blue notes seem to be neither one nor the other and I suspect that is about 50 cents. Lee Allen did a lot of that if I recall, and not because he couldn’t play in tune I hasten to add.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Not everyone is playing along with others, at a young age, which helps develop your ears etc etc, as the Maestro will point out.
Drones are great, if you can tell if you're in tune.
In days of old, music programs required passing a pitch and rhythm discrimination test, for admission. Usually given in grades, 5-6.
Listen to the open E string, at the start,
in the Cafe 1930 post #14, and the backing track in post #21.
Are they both in tune, with E2?

Playing the piccolo, most often, along with recorded music, live and studio, I'll often move the head a bit, from the marking that was scribed, as in tune, on the OT12 Korg.
Old Conn Strobos, from the '70s, are Kool. Still have one. Never made a foot switch, but maybe?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Playing the piccolo,

After plenty of experience I have learned it’s best not to

 

[Targa]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dwFQ6t9vSk

 

[cappers]

........The second one is in fact bang on in tune with a tuner. The first one is quite flat. ......

My novice ears say the first sounds 'nicer' but I reckon that's the one the tuner says is off.

Goody, I was correct. Still 'training' my ears so happy with that.
I guess it's down to context, would that note sound flat/wrong in other instances or styles?

 

[TootSweet]

The Peterson strobClip tuner is nice.

StroboClip HD | Peterson Strobe Tuners

The Peterson StroboClip HD™ (SC-HD) has the same tenth-of-a-cent accuracy as all Peterson Strobe Tuners. This versatile tuner comes complete with a bright high-definition screen, over 50 Sweetened™ tunings, alternate temperaments for a vast array of string and wind instruments, and soft...

www.petersontuners.com

 

[Colin the Bear]

It's interesting listening to an amateur band when there are deps.
If the lead alto player is away there seems to be a discussion in the sax section about pitch. It follows that the solos are all slightly off key.

When the lead alto player returns the section settles on pitch and solos are closer.

I've noticed when playing saxophone with some trumpeters I need to stay away from close harmony but with others it's sweet. No problems that way with clarinet. The different timbres blend easier.

Tuners are for guitars. imo.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

If you use a tuner to get the low E in tune, and can't get the others in tune with your ears, you should try harder.
Same with the Fiddle family, ya just need one.
Takes time and internalizing what you hear.
Pitch discrimination at 5 and 3 Hz, should be a goal. 1Hz, can be guessing.

Guitarists, often in a noisy environment between tunes, have a valid reason for those modern clip ons.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Pitch discrimination at 5 and 3 Hz, should be a goal. 1Hz, can be guessing.

1, 3, and 5Hz?????? Most speakers don’t go much below 45 - 50hz. Studio speakers or sub woofers lower.

 

[mizmar]

1, 3, and 5Hz?????? Most speakers don’t go much below 45 - 50hz. Studio speakers or sub woofers lower.

maybe he means a difference of 1, 2, 5Hz?
Which, even then, I'm not sure makes sense what with tone/frequency not being linear...
... And most people can't hear 1 or 2 ¢

 

[Pete Effamy]

maybe he means a difference of 1, 2, 5Hz?
Which, even then, I'm not sure make sense what with tone/frequency not being linear...
... And most people can't hear 1 or 2 ¢

Oh I see. Cents.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

To clarify.
The old one is like this.
I guess they mean you start at 50Hz of separation.
50Hz
30Hz
20Hz
10Hz
5Hz
3Hz
1Hz
Is the second tone higher or lower than the first.
You have to get three correct to move on to the next level.

Newer test..... have fun

Intonation Ear Trainer - Guitar Orb

Develop your intonation by picking the difference between notes that are less than a semitone apart.

www.guitarorb.com

 

[mizmar]

50Hz of separation

But on the tests you link to - it's percent difference... ¢

Not absolute frequency (Hz)

Absolute frequency makes no sense - let alone cents.
If A4 is 440Hz a semitone is about 25Hz different.
But at A2, 110 Hz a semitone is about 7hz different.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Cut to the chase,
Is the second tone higher or lower than the first.
No math involved. 😵‍💫
Give it a go.

The old test was better than the link.
It's in a laptop from 25+ years ago.
Might try to get it running in Win11,
but not today. 🧐

 

[Pete Thomas]

But on the tests you link to - it's percent difference... ¢

Not absolute frequency (Hz)

it's worth noting the percent difference may make less sense with just intonation

 

[Tenor Viol]

A music teacher I knew had a set of 20 small handbells all the same size. The total range of the 20 bells was one tone. Almost everyone could sort them into the correct pitch order. Unfortunately, I don't know what the pitch of them was.