Which Scales and What Order?

[sharon]

I'm learning scales as I go along and getting on Ok, I do it as part of my warm up. I use the saxophone grades 1 -8 book by philip sparke that lists all the scales required for the different grades (there are more than I imagined 😱 ). Anyway they seem to be listed randomly and I was wondering if there are some scales you should be more familiar with than others and what order should they be learnt.

I know: Bb major, E minor melodic/harmonic, G major,G minor melodic/harmonic, A minor melodic/harmonic, F major, C major
D major, minor melodic/harmonic I think that's it, oh and all the arpeggios that go with them. oh and I've started the G chromatic which I really like.

Should I just plod on with my book going through the grades or is there a more logical way. Strangely I rather enjoy them so it's not a chore and sometimes play them as a little tune sad isn't it.

As always chaps, all advice gratefully received.

Sharon 🙂

 

[nick_cook]

[color:green]Hi Sharon, I just learn the ones my teacher gives me!! I'm not sure how she chose them at first, but I'm now hoping to take the Jazz grade 1 exam in June, so we've just gone though the scales and arpeggios needed for that!![/color]

 

[tengu01]

Hi Sharon, something that helped me focus on my scales was to take a simple tune e.g. from a Jamie Aebersold and instead of playing the melody, play through the changes, in arpeggio form. And then do it without the backing track.

Once upon a time, a tutor of mine made me do this when I ambitiously stated that I wanted to get to grips with Giant Steps.

What was particularly interesting is that started breaking my habit of learning scales in a particular order e.g. I could easily play my major scales in the cycle of 4ths (C, F, Eb, Bb etc) but once they got chopped and changed into a tune, they didn't come so quickly to my fingers.

That way, you really get to grips with the inner workings of a song, apply your scale knowledge and hopefully have fun at the same time.

What do you think?

 

[suethesax]

Make yourself some cards with the scale names on that you want to play/learn. Shufle them and then play in that order. That way each day will be a different random order.

 

[nick_cook]

Sue wrote:
Make yourself some cards with the scale names on that you want to play/learn. Shufle them and then play in that order. That way each day will be a different random order.

[color:green]Brilliant idea!!! (I'm going to pinch that one!!!)[/color]

 

[tengu01]

Nick Cook wrote:

Sue wrote:
Make yourself some cards with the scale names on that you want to play/learn. Shufle them and then play in that order. That way each day will be a different random order.

[color:green]Brilliant idea!!! (I'm going to pinch that one!!!)[/color]

That is a very very good idea indeed 🙂

I'll pinch it too

 

[sharon]

Thanks Sue that IS a good idea I will do that.

Tengu01 - That sounds like a great exercise, I know what you mean about the scales chopped around in tunes. I'm not sure I know how to do it though (sorry to be thick). I play music off the sheet and don't use backing tracks or play by ear. Although I do enjoy learning songs to play without the music. How do I apply the arpeggios for say F major to the song. 8| can't quite think how.

Also I was wondering if there are any scales that are used more than others I seem to come across F and D a lot. I also try and learn scales which have notes in them that I have a mental block with e.g. Db and E b and have found this good practice.

Sharon

 

[tengu01]

Hi Sharon,

My bad, I didn't explain myself clearly enough. If you take a typical jamey aebersold, the chord notes are placed over the bar as guidance. What I try to do is follow the actual chords rather than the melody line, if if the bar runs

?F, F, F, F? G, G, F F?

I will arpeggiate F for 4 beats, G for 2 beats, F for a further 2

You can do that for any song where you know or can see the chords. It also helps in getting used to playing changes because you are working around the structure of the song rather than following the melody which is already working within the framework provided by the chords.

As for chords which are used more frequently than others....if you're playing with guitarists, they tend to be the difficult ones with all the sharps and flats >.< (no offence to any guitarists present)

 

[sharon]

Thanks Tengu. I think I know what you mean. In fact a lot of my music books have what I think are the chords written above the bar. I didn't know what to do with them and am rather unsure about what they mean in terms of playing the piece.

As I'm sure you can tell my music theory is sadly lacking :erm: I have been reading up on theory and making some progress but of course these things take time!

As for playing with guitarists, I just play on my own at the moment and if they play all the tricky sharps and flats I'll keep it that way 😉

Sharon

 

[mick_wilson]

can i ask i have been playing just over 3 weeks now and still practicing the normal scale middle e, f , g , a , b, c, d. when should i start looking at different scales should i make sure im confident with the scale im on now or should i start different scales now?
andy help gratefully recieved

 

[jersey_mike]

Sharon and Mick, (and everyone else to who this may apply)
Do you have an instructor/tutor? It's be a great idea to get one if you don't have one yet. I took about 6 months of lessons in 1992 and put the horn away until taking it out again in January of 2005. The next year and a half I tried to relearn on my own and got into a lot of bad habits even though a decent sound was coming out of the horn. Also, no real improvement was noticeable. I finally got an instructor in Sept of '06 and it took about 3 months of ingraining to relearn some of the stuff I was doing wrong. Since that time the progress has been steady and real noticeable to the instructor, my wife, and especially the neighbors. There are still times when I forget some of the more difficult scales (though F# is coming out quite naturally now that I'm goofing off with guitarists and whole songs are in that key for tenors)

In conclusion--please get an instructor even if it's only once a month. You won't regret it.

 

[jools]

The best advice I ever got from a teacher with regard to scales, was to think of every scale as a variation or 'corruption' (accidentals) of C. Therefore... E (for eg) is a C scale with 'altered' FCG and D. = ( FCGDAEB -sharps... BEADGCF -flats (easy acronym to remember) Flat keys: FBEADG, Sharp keys: GDAEBF - backwards and forwards in the eternal circle of fifths of life. )

Charlie Parker actually thought that there was only 'one scale' when he started out? He considered all music to be 'chromatic'.

 

[jools]

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