Beginner Sax Which beginner sax

[JayeNM]

Jupiter JPS-547GL soprano saxophone reviewed at SHWoodwind, December 2015.

"Tonewise, I'd say it's a slightly stiff blow. That's different from 'resistant' insomuch as a resistant horn can still still be punchy and bright...and the Jupiter isn't. My very first impression was that of having a 'frog in the throat' - that slight gritty huskiness in the voice that often heralds the onset of a sore throat or a cold".

"When all is said and done I feel the JPS-547 is a bit of a mixed bag. I'd say the build quality is just about bordering on under par for the price".
...
"when all is said and done, the 547 isn't a particularly joyful horn to play".

My reaction to the above review was:

(1) No thanks for hurting the resale value of Jupiter Soprano 547s.
(2) But that is not my Sop (technical details were different based on photo comparison).

I did take on board Forum posts suggesting the "Jupiter curse" was poor resale value and that that review was not helping resale value. FWIW, I liked the tone of my Jupiter but it is a stiffer blow than my 82Z.

You'll note on my initial post my suggestions were the 6XX series and 7XX series...horns which, market-value wise, are available for about teh same price as a used 23.

 

[JayeNM]

I'm not questioning your opinion since you have far more experience with these brands, but doesn't the Conn 7M suffer with some of the problems other Mexican made Conns (MexiConns) are known to have?

Good man...it's funny that for some reason the Jupes (an established, good-selling, successful brand) seem to be more the bone of contention here, considering it'd be the 7M which I'd expect to jump out at most sax folks in-the-know....

7M's began their internet rep badly, with a single somewhat active Forum poster (also a talented engraver) claiming 'pieces started spontaneously falling off' when he would play it'... This bit was literally the only comment from an actual owner which would turn up in a websearch on the model, 12 or so years ago....and as things can get amplified to absurd proportions on the www ........it acquired 'the mark'.

So, they weren't exactly expensive to acquire...nor were they even visually familiar to anyone (back in 2008 I dubbed it 'the unicorn alto') so it's not like most would know what to look for...so I managed acquired some when they'd pop up (maybe 2-3x/year on eFlay),

Then studied up a bit on 'em (which wasn't easy since there were no real reviews). These seem to have been intended to replace the 6M, and Conn offered the two models concurrently for the first couple of years starting in 1970, then the 6M vanished.
Upon pulling a few apart, I noted they had the 6M body tube, neck tube (minus the underslung double socket) with a new bow and RH bellkeys, plus the 'modern' style keywork. Fair to call it a 'modernized 6M' ? They were a good concept, if a failed product from a selling point of view. Serial #'s indicate they were made maybe for around 6 years.

Now, when I suggest any used model....I am always suggesting with the assumption that the used model has been serviced and is in good playing shape (because as you and I know, folks shouldn't go buying a used horn if the seller doesn't guarantee it's in good tack).

So for me (and your question is fair), the assumption is the horn has been serviced and any conditions whether due to normal wear or factory inconsistency has been taken care of (which in the case of Mexiconns usually involved key play and perhaps some key arms which required tweaking/bending/re-orienting most commonly).

So, when a 7M is put in good tack by a tech, just like any Mexiconn, it holds up quite well.

I sell a lot of Mexiconns, probably have sold 60 in the past 3 or 4 years...never had an owner come back and complain. On the 'other' forum occasionally former clients post about their Mexiconns. years after they bought 'em, noting that they are still doing quite fine. So my assumption is, once put into correct tack, they don't start failing, and remain quite reliable.

So, if one asked me...23 vs. 7M, both in good tack...which would I choose ?

7M...it sounds way nicer, has better blowing response, feels more substantial.
Thus it makes my list (it'd likely be the hardest one to find on that list, too).

 

[sizzzzler]

A lot of beginers and returners write in here asking for advice on a first saxophone and many are on a limited budget. if that’s you, and bang for the buck and resale value matter, get a secondhand student Yamaha.

 

[jbtsax]

Thanks @JayeNM. My experience with the "MexiConns" I have repaired was that they had several major "birth defects" to correct and required much more work than an ordinary "play condition". That said, once made leak free, they play quite well. I still prefer the YAS-23 because of its intonation, availability of parts, and serviceability.

 

[JayeNM]

A lot of beginers and returners write in here asking for advice on a first saxophone and many are on a limited budget. if that’s you, and bang for the buck and resale value matter, get a secondhand student Yamaha.

Yet the title of the thread is "Which Beginner Sax". Which suggested to me, the convo was going to be on what saxes are good for beginners....

It isn't entitled "Lauding the 23".

I simply have been chiming in that there is NO "one" choice. The 23 is the default choice, and it has come to be for good reason,

But there exist on the market a number of good, appropriate choices in that particular price range.

Given limitations of budget - and what the buyer might be seeking, in the sax world there is always more than one choice, is all.

 

[JayeNM]

Thanks @JayeNM. My experience with the "MexiConns" I have repaired was that they had several major "birth defects" to correct and required much more work than an ordinary "play condition".

Yes, it isn't unusual that they did (although I'll say an equal number came in having no more 'issues' than a 60's USA made Conn, too). The scope of correcting those issues goes beyond a tune-up servicing, yes...but you'd probably agree that the work was pretty straightforward, is all. It wouldn't cause a good tech problems.

 

[CliveMA]

Now, when I suggest any used model....I am always suggesting with the assumption that the used model has been serviced and is in good playing shape (because as you and I know, folks shouldn't go buying a used horn if the seller doesn't guarantee it's in good tack).

Would you recommend a beginner only buy a second-hand horn from an outlet that can back a "good playing shape" guarantee with a service capability? Or is it okay to buy second-hand from, say e-bay (if seller claims guaranteed good playing shape)?

When buying second-hand, would you recommend a beginner get a good independent tech to do a service checkover to make sure it is in good playing condition? How much would that typically cost?

 

[DavidUK]

Clive, I've sold dozens of horns here (and elsewhere) in my original quest to find bargains, try them, see if they're better than what I have already, and if not better to sell them on.

What I always do is to check they play perfectly and if not, or I'm in any doubt (as I have been recently since not playing much) I take them to a (trusted) tech for examination/repair/set-up, the invoice for which is included with the sale to give the buyer confidence.

I'm not a repairer, although I can do some minor stuff, but I do want to ensure a buyer never has any problems with the horns I sell.

By buying wisely (mostly) I've managed to own and play a wide variety of models which have taken my interest. Some I've searched for, or waited to surface, such as the elusive 7M, recently back from a set-up by Paul Carrington.

Hopefully I have gained a good reputation for selling horns in good condition.

As for which "beginner" horn to buy, I really do like the 23 (alto) in its LeBlanc Vito guise (identical to a Yamaha 23) and would favour it slightly over the 7M for ergonomics but not for sound. But then again as @JayeNM often says, the 7M is a Pro horn so the 23 does well here.

Having had Buffet 100 & 400 (altos) I'd probably go for the 100 over a Yamaha 275 purely on value for money as I have seen this Buffet model sold a few times in the £150-250 range:

Buffet info: Reviews - Mini Review - Buffet 400 and 100 Altos side by side

 

[JayeNM]

Would you recommend a beginner only buy a second-hand horn from an outlet that can back a "good playing shape" guarantee with a service capability? Or is it okay to buy second-hand from, say e-bay (if seller claims guaranteed good playing shape)?

It can go either way. The safer bet is to buy from a seller who

~ states unequivocally the horn is in playing shape and will take a return if it arrives not that condition (which is what I guarantee; many purveyors of second hand instruments will give that assurance).

To the second part of your Q - on eBay now, returns are pretty much guaranteed (although not in so many words) and they are always gonna side with the buyer, so in a sense it's a 'forced' guarantee on the seller. All buyer needs to do is claim it is 'not as described'.

BUT...that doesn't mean a prospective buyer shouldn't ask while listing is active. Oftentimes a description will be something like 'looks to be in good shape".....and folks will assume 'that means it plays'...which of course doesn't mean that at all.

Another common eBay thing is: you ask the seller if it is in playing condition.
Seller replies : "yeah, it plays".
That's not an answer to your question, if you get my drift...

So, sure...buy on eBay, just make sure you get an assurance from seller the horn is in good playing condition. If they will not give that assurance, pass on the horn. That's usually what I tell people (or......build in an added budget of around 125 quid min. for servicing locally once you receive - for one which looks to be in good shape, pads ok, no significant body damage apparent).