Saxophones Grade 5 with a beginner sax?

[Freya Luscombe]

I've run into a bit of a predicament. I'm at grade 5 standard (15 years old) on the alto saxophone. Ive been playing for 4 years using a beginner Gear4Music alto saxophone. I'm the first to admit this is not a high quality sax which is why I was been researching the possibility of buying a new one. I feel like I'm at an awkward stage in my skill where I can play an intermediate piece but fight against my current saxophone, but perhaps buying a more professional saxophone could be too expensive for the level of skill I am at.

In the least bratty way possible, money isn't a huge issue for me. I've got enough savings to be buying a £1000+ sax, the question is whether it's worth it.

I really want to progress with my instrument, and my teacher has suggested buying a new sax is part of the way of moving forward. I am willing to pay the money, and frankly deep down I am desperate to buy one of these gorgeous saxophones I keep seeing online.

I'm wondering whether it could be worth going straight for a professional sax instead of intermediate to save me money in the future so I wouldn't feel the need to buy a better one. I'm really stuck on what my answer is. Splurge and by a professional sax that doesn't quite fit the grade I am at, or upgrade to an intermediate and consider buying a better saxophone later down the line?

Any kind of advice would be greatly appreciated, as well as any suggestions for a type of alto saxophone to buy or where to get it (I live in Cardiff, Wales if that helps).

Thank you!

 

[kevgermany]

You have a few options. Ignoring intermediate models, which mostly don't count these days. You won't find a new professional level sax in your price range. And there's no reason not to go pro at your level and level of commitment. So in order of ascending price.

Get your current sax tweaked and serviced by a good technician. Lightening the springs, checking for leaks, poor regulation. This will make a big difference to playability. But be careful not to spend more than the sax is worth, which isn't much.

Find a good condition good beginner sax such as the Yamaha 23/25/275/280 series and spend more to get it tweaked.

Look around for a good used pro model. You've enough for a YAS62 for instance. And you may find a Yanagisawa 901 for that money.

Save a lot more for a new pro sax.

It's worth taking a look in the yard sale forum. Often get good, fairly priced instruments there.

But... We should ask what about the current sax is holding you back? I guess your teacher has checked it out. What mouthpiece are you using?

 

[Zugzwang]

Hi Freya, there are so many v. knowledgeable people here. - why don't you tell them a bit more about the "fight" you're having with your current sax. Is it ergonomics, intonation, tone colour?
Have you spent time playing other saxes? Press your teacher to give an opinion about your setup - if a couple of £00s on a great mouthpiece will tide you over for a year or two, it'll give you more time to find your "horn for life". Good luck.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Hi
It's easy to focus on 'need a new xyz' - your sax might just need a bit of servicing for the time being. I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions from others. A good option is a decent well set-up second-hand sax.

 

[brianr]

Ive been playing for 4 years using a beginner Gear4Music alto saxophone.
but fight against my current saxophone,
I wouldnt spend any more time with this sax, and I dont think it is worth spending any of your savings getting it tweaked.
It is what it is, and if it frustrates you now..........its time to move on.


but perhaps buying a more professional saxophone could be too expensive for the level of skill I am at.
In many ways it is for you to make that choice.
But if you look at it as a life enhancing investment. go for it.
Your skill level will improve as a result of having this sax.

I've got enough savings to be buying a £1000+ sax, the question is whether it's worth it.
If you pick another saxophone wisely, then yes it will be worth it .
your improvement will justify it.

I really want to progress with my instrument, and my teacher has suggested buying a new sax is part of the way of moving forward. I am willing to pay the money, and frankly deep down I am desperate to buy one of these gorgeous saxophones I keep seeing online.
I disagree with your teacher about the need to buy "New"
depending on your upper limit, buying new will very much limit your choices and a pro level sax may be out of range. You may end up buying a new, intermediate level sax.
in addition, in the event of you not liking the sax, or when the time comes that you want a pro level ,you will take a great "hit" on how much you have spent when/if you come to sell it.
Im certain buying 2nd hand is the way forward for you at your stage of development.
obviously there are pro level saxes out there 2nd hand which are not worth buying, because of condition, but see below about overhaul/service.

I'm wondering whether it could be worth going straight for a professional sax
If your budget allows, then yes, go straight for this level.I would suggest missing out on the intermediate level stuff (yamaha , for example ) and going for better, now..

you say 1000+.
how much plus????

If you can get closer to 2000, you will get a very nice Selmer series 1 or 2. Or, a top Yanagisawa.

Dont be tempted by vintage.

On the other hand, dont be put of by a moderrn sax which has some lacquer missing. as long as it hasnt been damaged and is good shape physically, that is what matters. hopefully lacquer loss/looks would be reflected in the price.

You need either to take someone with you to assess it, or have total faith in the honesty of the seller.

There is a 3rd way. dont be afraid to buy a pro level sax that is in good condition physically, but doesnt play well
if you can get it for the right price, allowing funds still to be available for an overhaul or possibly a very good service, that is an option.
It is a riskier option and one that you would need much help advice on. but it is an option.


Any kind of advice would be greatly appreciated, as well as any suggestions for a type of alto saxophone to buy or where to get it (I live in Cardiff, Wales if that helps).

If your budget stretches go for a Selmer or Yanagisawa.

PS forget about "gorgeous online" that should NOT be part of the equation.

 

[nigeld]

I really want to progress with my instrument, and my teacher has suggested buying a new sax is part of the way of moving forward. I am willing to pay the money, and frankly deep down I am desperate to buy one of these gorgeous saxophones I keep seeing online.

I'm wondering whether it could be worth going straight for a professional sax instead of intermediate to save me money in the future so I wouldn't feel the need to buy a better one.

That is a dangerous question to ask on this forum, which is full of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) addicts like me!

Firstly, you should ignore titles of "student-level", "intermediate-level" and "professional-level". These are just terms used by the marketing departments to mean "our cheapest range", "our middle range" and "our most expensive range". The cheapest models made by, for example, Yamaha or Yanagisawa, will be much better made than the so-called "professional" models made by some other factories. And lots of professional players use cheap saxophones.

Personally I believe that some saxophones are a lot "nicer" (I don't say "better") than others, and if someone has the money, then they should look for the nicest saxophone they can afford. And different saxophones do sound and feel different. By getting to Grade 5 in four years you have shown that the saxophone is not just a childish whim. So if a different instrument will make you happier and more inclined to practice then go for it! Don't kid yourself that a new "professional" saxophone will make you play better - one of the best players on this Forum plays on Gear4Music instruments - but it may make you happier, and that is important too. So ignore the marketing labels and look for a saxophone that you like more than the one you have.

As others have said, the cheapest upgrade option from a sound point-of-view may be a new mouthpiece. Mouthpieces are an even bigger minefield than saxophones, so it would be worth discussing this with your teacher.

Also, as others have said, a used instrument is better value for money than a new one, because the first owner has suffered the depreciation. It's just like cars. So the first thing to decide is whether you want a shiny new saxophone, or whether a second-hand one would be OK, and how beat-up that could be. This is very much a personal thing.

If you want a new sax, the best thing to do would be to go to a saxophone shop with a lot of different models (Sax.co.uk in London is fantastic!) and just try them all to see which one you like best. It is a very personal thing: you may find that one feels better under the fingers than another, or that you just don't like the sound. Be a nuisance - you are the customer! Don't assume that all examples of a particular model are the same - if you find the "right" sax then get that one, not another supposedly-identical one in a box downstairs. Maybe you will decide that the sax you really want is a bit too expensive, so you need to save up more.

If you are happy with a second-hand instrument and you are not too fussy about how it looks, then you can get a pretty good one for around £1000-£1500 - for example a Yamaha YAS62 or a Yanagisawa 901. Or you could get a good used Yamaha "student" model (YAS 23/25/275/280, or even possibly a YAS32) for quite a bit less. Older Yamaha saxes are generally a good buy because they were well made. Personally I like the look of old saxes. I just bought a used Buffet-Crampon S1 alto for under £1000 - it is not a fashionable model and it looks a bit worn, but it has character and it sounds great. In this case you need to find a way try out the candidates to see what you like (this is really important - for example I personally don't much like how Yamaha altos sound, whereas other people love them) so that you know what you are looking for. Then you are ready to pounce when one comes up. Ignore vintage horns for now - too risky.

 

[Targa]

Look at Hanson, not been mentioned by anyone above but everyone who has one seems happy with it.

 

[Jeanette]

Lot's of good advice above, take your time and try as many as you can. You'll know when you find the right one

Jx

 

[Colin the Bear]

It's very easy to get into the mind set that all the problems I'm having must be because this saxophone didn't cost much money. I like G4M saxes. They punch way above their weight and do everything I want them to do, better than some more expensive instruments. There are some very expensive instruments that will out perform them and some that can't keep up imo. If you're moving in musical circles with an old fashioned attitude to modern Chinese instruments you may be getting looks down the nose which can be annoying and frustrating.

I don't understand this beginner, intermediate terminology. A good horn is a good horn. Some are built to last with quality materials. After all, what is a professional horn? It's a horn that stays in regulation and is familiar to a tech, a known quantity and straight forward to sort out. So, less frequently in the shop, less time in the shop when it's there and a smaller bill when it comes out.

Do they play any better? No not all of them. Do they sound better? Most definitely no, not all of them. However that's a very personal thing. You'll get as many opinions offered as there are players in the room.

As far as playability goes, the most important thing imo is that a saxophone fits your hands. It may have a precise action and accurate intonation but if it's not under your fingers and you're stretching to find the keys, you'll never make it fly.

You don't mention your set up. Mouthpiece can have a dramatic effect on limiting your progress. Perhaps a better match to you and the horn would be a more appropriate interface at this time. At 15 you're still developing. Your physiognomy will change. Your tastes will change and your musicality will grow all the time you are playing.

Bear in mind also that a nice shiney £1k instrument will need insuring. Some toe rag will be after nicking it and it will break your heart if you drop and ding it.

After all this advice, the heart wants what the heart wants and I'd buy a Yani if I had the money

 

[jonf]

I own three altos at present. A Yanagisawa, a vintage Buescher and a Gear4Music. A G4M sax, if working well, is easily good enough for Grade 5, or, to be perfectly honest, up to Grade 8 and beyond. If it's working properly, it will not, in itself, hold you back. Some will tell you that a G4M is not going to be durable. Not my experience, hasn't needed so much as a tweak in the time I've had it. It also has screw adjusters on the upper and lower stack, so when there is some wear on the action it's relatively easy to adjust. So it should last well enough for loads of practice.

Having made this point, you might find yourself motivated to practice harder and enjoy your playing more if you have a super new sax. If this is the case, don't bother getting a mid range sax, get something which will be all the sax you'll ever need, like a Yamaha YAS62 or a Yanagisawa A901. Should be possible for around a grand.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Good point above - don't forget to insure it. I have separate instrument insurance and it costs about £33 per instrument per year.

 

[ellinas]

What do you mean by "fight against my saxophone"?
Is there a technical problem that puts you off?

No matter what saxophone you have, you will fight against it in some areas ...... intonation .... voicing .... eveness of tone .... etc....

But if there's something technical ... etc.... soft metal that requires frequent visits to the tech ..... etc... this is an other thing ..

 

[Pete Thomas]

There can be very very little difference in playing (ergonomics, tone, response) between any so-called beginner instrument and any so-called professional instrument (or so-called intermediate for that matter).

The main differences may be in the actual structure and build quality, (although there are plenty of exceptions) so unless there is something mechanically wrong with a G4M it isn't going to hold up progress. As has been pointed out, many professionals are quite happy using what might be termed beginner saxophones. I use a chip Chinese baritone for professional TV/film and pop recording sessions.

However there can be a psychological aspect. It is important to be happy and inspired by your instrument, and if you feel your instrument is holding you back, then maybe it will. If buying one that looks better or costs a lot gives you the confidence boost you need, then I believe that is actually a reason to buy it.

 

[nigeld]

I use a chip Chinese baritone

But was it fried in fat or in oil? That makes a big difference to the tone.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Chinese saxes are better at noodling than chips

 

[sax panther]

Your budget sounds just about right for a Hanson SA8 with enough leftover for some mouthpiece shopping. But I'm biased, as I've got an SA8 (which I'm very pleased with). As Targa says though, Hanson are worth a look, they'll ship you a couple of saxes on approval, and if you buy it they service it for free for 5 years.

You should also consider looking at second hand saxes, budgeting for a visit to a technician to get it tweaked/set up.

My experience with G4M is pretty patchy - my Bari is G4M and has always been fine, but I used to have a tenor that was pretty bad. Can you give more details on the problems you're having with it?