Saxophones Where/When is this Vito from?

[Ghr9204]

It is so easy to tell a Yamaha-made horn from a KHS one, my question is “who cares?” On alto the J-curve keyguard is a dead giveaway, and on tenors the low C-Eb pinky table is too. To say nothing of bell brace differences, neck octave keys, and many other things.

Thus far from what I can tell, either make are good buys.

Vito Pascucci, LeBlanc USA President, made sure that stencils sold under the LeBlanc name were quality instruments to uphold the LeBlanc name and heritage. Even though billed as student models, they are IMO of intermediate quality.

If one thinks about it, a parent steps into a music store with their child. The salesperson shows these then available student models. Shown are Selmer Bundy's, a LeBlanc Yamaha Vito or Jupiter Vito, Yamaha YAS-21, etc. maybe an Amati. All look beautiful in their cases. The LeBlanc's are priced a touch cheaper. Guess what the parents opt to pay for?

Student is struggling with their sax playing. Band teacher borrows their Jupiter Vito sax, finds it plays without problems. Then concentrates on helping this student overcome a learning hurdle.

Also easy to tell a Beaugnier-made Vito, which in my opinion are preferable (with the possible exception of the Yanigisawa-made sopranos).

In another Café thread I mention my purchase of a used 1952 Model 37 Beaugnier Vito alto with high serial number placing it probably in the early 1960's. (They kept making them that long.) For around $550 after professional servicing by Tarpley and a new case is one of my new keepers. It has such a beautiful tone being a large bore sax if one doesn't mind using a 1940's left pinky table. Someone mentioned in Café that a pro is using this as his backup sax in venues where he doesn't want to risk harm to his expensive pro sax.

I do understand the interest in clarifying the historic timetable, and I commend those who are doing the research. It’s unfortunate that these excellent instruments are less well known, and often looked down upon. And many records which would clear these questions have been discarded or otherwise lost. Vito is a small sub-niche in what we must admit is a niche subject; namely, the history of saxophone manufacturing.

I think that in time we will find the missing pieces to help further clarify these Vito manufacturing histories. But, you do make a good point that the more important matter is that one be happy with their ownership and that those interested in finding used saxes that make good players to not overlook the Vitos.

 

[Ghr9204]

It’s unfortunate that these excellent instruments are less well known, and often looked down upon.

In the various forums and newsgroups I've participated in, one fallacious gripe that comes up occasionally that discourages others, is a reference to buying one quite inexpensively from Craigslist, eBay, Goodwill Auction, etc.

Then rattles off that it played poorly out of tune, hard to blow, keys bad, classic symptoms of needing serious servicing. Then rants that it wasn't worth spending any more money to get it fixed. Go buy yourself a real sax.

The value of exposing the truth on these underdog brands is so the public then knows even if on a limited budget can still find good bargains and how to take care of them.

The good is that any competent sax repairer will repair these versus no name brands from the Orient that may be of dubious quality.

And, if a saxist is looking for a backup or an outdoor busking sax on a limited budget can find a decent yet affordable one they'll be satisfied with.

 

[JayeNM]

KHS Musical Instruments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 36910
"By 1980 KHS was a full-scale musical instrument manufacturer and the Jupiter brand was started to market a complete line of wind instruments and percussion. KHS also began supplying instruments for export and sale under the American Vito brand."

OK, so it says 80's is when they were in full on distribution worldwide.

'87 is the earliest Jupe serial # I have ever come across...so am figuring mid-80's is absolute earliest they ever hit the shores here.

There were no Jupiters around anywhere, domestically, prior to '85 am pretty sure. HS and college bandrooms didn't have 'em that I know of...

I will insist with a fair amount of confidence no Vito Jupes existed here in the 80's. So table 1g I say is wrong...or at the very best at least as speculative as my assertion. So to broadcast it on a website is misleading folks (unless they link it to a pic). If Dr. Sax has no photo of a 'Taiwanese Vito from 80's" then he hasn't backed his assertion, basically.

To disprove it, someone need only find a Jupe Vito with a serial and details predating '87, or an owner who can show proof he bought his Jupe styled Vito back then, . Early Jupe details ('87) and the details from around '00 forward...are not identical in a few places on keywork and neck.

So, if someone had the time and inclination...not sure why one would, but....catalog a huge cross section of listings and pics of Jupe styled Vitos and see if you could find any showing details from 87-ish as opposed to 2001-ush. That'd get somewhere....


To date, every Jupe Vito I have worked on or even viewed online FS, has been from right around 2000 and early 2000's....stylistically....none showed details not coinciding with that time period. Again, my experience.

Possible overlap of the Yama contract ending and the Jupe beginning ? Resulting it a short period where Vito was supplying both 23's and Jupe 56X's to shops and schools ? That is certainly possible.

 

[Ghr9204]

@JayeNM , I cannot answer for what comes across your workbench. You see, your observations indeed brings up questions that need an answer. I have questions. My Jupiter Vito S/N 313xx came from Canada and came in a brown Le Blanc case with auburn red felt interior. On the 'net I have yet to find another in a brown case.

Photo barrelling is due to cellphone camera close-up.

OK, so it says 80's is when they were in full on distribution worldwide. '87 is the earliest Jupe serial # I have ever come across...so am figuring mid-80's is absolute earliest they ever hit the shores here. There were no Jupiters around anywhere, domestically, prior to '85 am pretty sure. HS and college bandrooms didn't have 'em that I know of...

Good question. This thread mentions Jupiter (not Vito) history:

https://www.saxontheweb.net/threads/jupiter-numbering-system.65862/

Post #4 mentions Jupiter S/N's after 1984, so there were Jupiters prior.
Post #5 mentions a Jupiter S/N numbering convention starting with 1986, obtained from
The Music Box: Serial Number List for Jupiter

Dr. Sax seems to be cut of the same cloth as other sax repairers here. I put his brief bio in this spoiler as to not take up reading bandwidth but for those interested:
Dr. Sax About

About the Doctor ➠

Hi, my name is Kim Slava.

Why Doctor Sax? Long ago and far away, my son was trying to come up with a log in name for something...Hotmail maybe. Every login name he came up with had already been taken. Finally I suggested Doctor Detroit. Dan Akroyd fans out there will remember the movie by that name.

Time went by and I had occasion to come up with a login name and I came up with Doctor Sax...more in tribute to Jack Kerouac than with any thought to horn repair. Much later as I trained in woodwind repair, the name Doctor Sax took on added meaning and after asking friends and family what they thought, I finally decided to name the business Doctor Sax. I think I still occasionally get e-mail I send deleted unread by people who mistake the "a" in "sax" as an "e", but other than that it has worked out pretty well for me.

When I started working up advertising material I succumbed to use a picture of my grandfather. He's the dapper gent in the hat. He was neither a doctor nor a instrument repairman, but he was reputedly descended from the Hapsburg throne. I reckon him to be one cool dude.

The Scarier looking fellow is Alfred Crabtree. I knew a fellow who ran the Seattle Times garage whose last name was Crabtree. I always liked the name for some reason. Alfred speaks more to Batman's butler. Combined, they were quintessentially .... something, something evocative. Not much more to that story.

Contact Info:
2100 Winnebago St., #105
(Anderson-Thomas Building)
Madison, WI 53704
Set back from the street, almost behind Ford's Gym.
608-279-9744 - Please call to make sure I am there and
you don't waste a trip..
E-mail: [email protected]

I gather that Dr. Sax was another repair dude like you and the others here. Did see an older SOTW recommendation on those in the Madison Wisconsin area needing a sax repairer to look up Dr. Sax.

Was his records from his repairs and investigations in error? I don't know. I don't think he willfully did anything out of nafariousness.

Did the Canadian music stores and schools receive LeBlanc Jupiter Vitos before some US buyers? I don't know.

The truth is other there somewhere, it just seems to escape everyone for now, IMO.

 

[turf3]

I wonder if KHS sold saxophones named Vito in the US (through Leblanc, of course) before they started selling under their own Jupiter name? This is kind of how Yanagisawa got into the US market, with Vito branded baritones and Martin branded altos and tenors, before starting to sell under their own name.

Also of interest would be whether there might have been regional variations? Might Leblanc have needed two different manufacturers to supply demand, or in order to protect themselves against single-source risk? And then, just for example, the Vito's shipped to Enormous Eastern Distributor Inc were KHS, and the ones for Enormous Western Distributor Inc were Yamaha, or something like that. Keeping in mind that in the 1980s the vast majority of student tax sales would have been through local music stores and those horns would have tended to stay in the same geographical area for years, I can imagine some benefits to dividing up the sales that way.

 

[Ghr9204]

Another rare find, an early Jupiter Vito alto, S/N 2314 in an earlier LeBlanc brown rectangular plywood case with auburn red felt interior. This one is a bit in the rough.
eBay: Vito Alto Saxophone

Cropped eBay photo.

eBay photos rotated and joined.

After downloading the photo, it took zooming in and rotating photo to make out the serial number due to the way it is stamped, tarnish masking and how the item was lit during photo taking. The 2nd digit in not "6", "B", "8", it is actually "3".

 

[Ghr9204]

There's a difference from the earlier model to the later one. Mine, S/N 541xxx has an updated "Vito" label on the bell that is cleanly stamped, letters double lined. My older tenor S/N 313xx is marked like the alto above.

 

[Ghr9204]

This is the Vito bell label on my earlier Jupiter Tenor 313xx: