Reeds What's wrong with cardboard reed holders?

BigMartin

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Manchester, UK
From reading that thread on SOTW, I get the impression that they don't deliver a very warm sound.
so maybe Marca is not for me?
I don't know about the tonal subtleties. I'm not even sure what a "warm" sound is, but I suspect it usually just means a sound that the writer likes. What I do know is that the quality of Marca reeds seems to me to be more consistent than the Rico reeds I switched from. I almost never have to reject one completely.
 

Ne0Wolf7

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Long Island
I don't think it would be very easy (quite possible unachievable due to not all woodwind players using social media) to organize a large enough boycott to make any great changes, especially considering schools and other musical institutions with contracts and professionals with very specific needs, as well as anyone else not willing to hinder their playing,
I hate saying it, but I do believe in the vandoren "flow pack," but making it from the aforementioned biodegradable plastic would quell any qualms about it. If the box is made small enough to support the reeds, holders may not even be necessary (referring to reeds in individual plastic wraps).
I think the greatest obstacle in getting manufacturers to change materials is the cost associated with changing manufacturing processes, then the subsequent price increase resulting in a greater loss of profits due to customers looking elsewhere.
The two ways I can see a change happening are:
Players actually make a point to buy from environmentally friendly manufacturers when they make the switch (which is a maybe at best in my opinion)
or
Reed manufacturers work out a contract that is designed to not significantly affect market share if they all make the switch as once (which would take an incredible amount of effort to actually make happen, not just on their part with lawers and all, but on us to not buy reeds from just about everywhere for what would probably be a significant amount of time).
 

JazzMatt

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375
Reed makers could have a scheme whereby if you send your empty plazzy holders back to them, when you order a new batch, you get a discount from the cost. The reed makers clean and reuse the holders.

A bit like the glass bottle refund from the Pop Man!
 

Wonko

Member
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225
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Belgium
Biodegradable plastic is a real thing. A few years ago a friend showed up for a bike ride with biodegradable plastic water bottles. We had the same thought: I hope these things don't start breaking down while we ride! They didn't.
It is a real thing.
But often these plastics are only biodegradable under specific circumstances. Like in large industrial composting installations that can achieve high temperatures. Often these plastics will not degrade at all in "nature" or in your compost heap at home.
 

Wonko

Member
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225
Location
Belgium
D'Addario do have a guitar string recycling program - Playback – D’Addario’s String Recycling Program but nothing for recycling plastic waste.
Having cellophone around a box of reeds or sealing them in individual plastic packets isn't at all necessary.
Just looked into this because my wife and daughter play the guitar and bass.
but it's only in the USA that they offer this ......

:confused2::headscratch:

Better not fly to the States with a couple of guitar strings I guess .....
Sort of defeats the purpose.
 

Bob M.

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At my house
I like the plastic ones far more than the cardboard ones which do not really protect them at all. I of course have reed holders with moisture control for my reeds that are in use, but like the plastic ones in the packaging.
I certainly won;t boycott them, but if the rest of you do, perhaps I'll be able to buy them cheaper.
 

Jeanette

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Cheshire UK
I like the plastic ones to keep my reeds in after use. We'd probably have more impact on the environment boycotting milk and water in plastic bottles.....

Jx
 
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jmbrnrd

jmbrnrd

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Carshalton Beeches England
I like the plastic ones far more than the cardboard ones which do not really protect them at all. I of course have reed holders with moisture control for my reeds that are in use, but like the plastic ones in the packaging.
I certainly won;t boycott them, but if the rest of you do, perhaps I'll be able to buy them cheaper.
OK, so you 'like' the idea that the individual plastic reed covers protect you reeds whilst they're inside the box and, in your opinion, that justifies the continued use of that particular plastic adding to our environmental crisis – although I do wonder why other reed manufacturers like Gonzalez, Marca don't use plastic protectors if, as you say, the cardboard doesn't protect them at all.

I like the plastic ones to keep my reeds in after use. We'd probably have more impact on the environment boycotting milk and water in plastic bottles.....
But hang on a minute...surely we can't boycott plastic milk and water bottles because some people might 'like' them?

If you both believe that some people 'liking' something is sufficient justification for continuing to do it then that's up to you but, on that basis, you'd also have to support the legalisation of fox hunting, badger baiting, the ivory trade, smoking on public transport, free plastic bags etc. Do you?
 

thomsax

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Sweden
When I worked in a music shop back in the late 70's we sold many reedholder (Reedguards in alu). The customers use to load thier holders with 4 reeds. We kept regular contact with the customers by selling reeds. We took reeds from the box and hold it against the light so the customers also could see that the reeds were ok. It was nice to meet the customers and also good for the business. Today reeds, tomorow a new strap, next month a new mouthpiece or a sax ... . Today it's reed business online. Low price and fast handle.

The alu holders are better than plastic.
PICT0658.JPG

The cardboard holders were also nice and gave us info. SML cardboard holder and an old cardboard holder holding C-soprano reeds from the 20'sor 30's.
kartong.JPG
 

thomsax

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Sweden
I'm pretty sure that some plastic reed holders from UK ends up in Sweden! UK is selling garbage to Sweden! Big business. It's going to be tricky when Brexit is a reality.

 

Vetinari

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Location
East Manchester
Humans....... if we do it then somewhere along the production/use line the ecology of planet earth is adversely affected.

Even planting, growing, picking, transporting, storing, preparing and disposing of the waste of our food, vegetable or animal has an ecological cost.

If you can name some thing that has no negative effect then I would be very surprised.
 
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jmbrnrd

jmbrnrd

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Carshalton Beeches England
If you can name some thing that has no negative effect then I would be very surprised.
You may be right but that does not mean that all negative effects are equal. Nor does it, in my opinion, absolve us of our moral responsibility to lessen the damage (or in some cases reverse damage), based on the scientific evidence available, caused by us, in our brief time on this planet.
 

thomsax

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Sweden
If you can name some thing that has no negative effect then I would be very surprised.
I have a better life nowadays! I sold my car and bouhgt a new bike! I've probably done my last flight (Boston 2011, last time I flew). Warming up my house with woodpellets. Cut down my consumption of red meet. More vegetables. .... I'm not going to save the world. But my life is good. I can buy a new sax once a year. A full tank of fuel in my old Coroola was ca 600. 00 s e k
 

Vetinari

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East Manchester
I agree with both previous posts that any lowering of human impact is a good thing, but l think it is still worth noting that the actions causing the problem are more wide spread and go deeper than many people know or expect, even making, buying and using the tablet that I write this post on has caused problems. Depressing, but how far can we go in convincing every one world wide to do their bit.
 

MandyH

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This post came past on my Facebook feed a couple of days ago.

I am sharing the text here because the post wasn’t a public post.

This was a response from Vandoren to (I assume) a closely related question.

<quote>
Begin forwarded message:

From: Laurent Sultan - Vandoren SAS <lsultan@vandoren.fr>
Date: 6 May 2019 at 10:07:51 BST

Dear Madam,

Thank you for writing Vandoren.

We are also musicians, we understand your concern and all our researches have always been to find processes that combine an efficiency for the musician, state-of-the art technology and environmental preoccupations. This is not simple. You will see a technical answer below:

Vandoren exports 95% of its reeds worldwide, and often the journey is long to the musician, in distance and time, in very dry or very humid climates. And the box of reeds can be stocked or displayed in the sunny frontage of a shop, with conditioned air.
That is why we had to find a way to send « Factory Fresh » reeds with a « Flow Pack » that prevents the reed from humidity changes ; and keep each reed flat with an individual reed protector.

The plastic reed protector is made of 100% recyclable polypropylene (with the triangular symbol pp5). Depending upon the country, it can be put in cans for recycling. Our patented protector was released in 1985, it guarantees a flat hold of the reed. Of course once the flow pack is open, we can put the reed in a reedcase.

Flow Pack film. The "flow pack", released in 2005, is made of recyclable film (whose calorific value during incineration is important). The choice of our supplier was made according to the technical constraints related to the performance of the flow pack for the protection of the reed, but also vis-à-vis an ecological approach (company certified ISO14001 which concerns the environmental management .
Our cellophane for reeds boxes is a very common type based on polypropylene.
In addition, we are continuing our research to use biodegradable or compostable films. The fineness of the films we use has the advantage of limiting the volume of waste in comparison with other packaging solutions such as waterproof box or hygrometry maintenance methods.

Concerning cardboard boxes and cases as well as all of our prints, we decided to entrust their realization to companies strongly committed to the path of ecology.

2) I take this opportunity to tell you about the reed and its culture:

The reed used as material for making reeds is a 100% natural plant. It should be emphasized that the shiny part of the reed is not varnish but the natural bark of the reed. Reed cane waste resulting from the manufacture of reeds is fully reused either as powder and compost in our plantations or to feed the boiler that heats our plant. This recent, high-efficiency facility releases only water vapor and CO2 into the atmosphere. It is important to underline that Co2 being of plant origin, and not fossil, its dissemination in the atmosphere does not contribute to the increase of the greenhouse gas emission. The quantity released during combustion is in fact globally offset by the amount of atmospheric Co2 absorbed by the plant during its two years of growth. We do not use any chemicals in earth.

Hoping this helps you to understand our concerns and our processes, we remain,

Best regards,

Laurent Sultan, Vandoren
 
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