Tech/maintenance What kind of Shellac do you use?

[Woodpad]

I have never used hot glue. My wife uses it for some of her crafts and the mess (trying to be kind here!) has always made me want to stay far far away!

It is something you can get used to. The most important part is to find the amount of glue that is only a few drops more than needed. You can wipe the overflow with a cloth when it is still hot.

I use glue gun sticks for my polyester/silicone pads that are made to fit within 0.2 mm so I can glue without need for positioning for the correct height. Heat the cups on the inside with a hot air gun, place glue, more hot air to reach an uniform melt and fit the pads. For leather pads you need an extra step to correct for height.
The feared glue threads only occur when there is too much glue.

 

[JayeNM]

It's not Amazon, it's all the shipping out of the US. I can get stuff shipped from England, France, or Japan for a fraction of the cost of shipping out of the US. And from China it is much cheaper than any of them!
The US is rapidly eliminating itself from the rest of the world!
It's sad because there are a lot of things that the US makes that we would like to buy but we simply can't do it because of the American policies.
It's no mystery why China has become the #1 trading partner of the world!

I am pretty sure it is Amazon. I guarantee .... you ordering two shellac sticks, or ten, from Instrumentclinic.com in Michigan ...and having him ship it in a Priority International box...is NOT gonna cost $90.

Contact him and ask.

 

[JayeNM]

I have never used hot glue. My wife uses it for some of her crafts and the mess (trying to be kind here!) has always made me want to stay far far away!

It is IMHO a very distant second to shellac. Some techs swear by glue, but for me and I think the majority, shellac is superior....

 

[Diesel Gypsy]

I am pretty sure it is Amazon. I guarantee .... you ordering two shellac sticks, or ten, from Instrumentclinic.com in Michigan ...and having him ship it in a Priority International box...is NOT gonna cost $90.

Contact him and ask.

No, it's not Amazon. I have the same issues ordering direct from US sellers. The freight or mail charges are ridiculous and they make people shop elsewhere.
UPS is especially bad. They can easily take 2-3 weeks+ to get something to me and the freight/exchange is terrible. Part of the long delivery time is because UPS is just a US shipper and they don't have any good partners outside the US. But US companies seem to like them, I suppose, because they are convenient for them. For me? Not so much!

 

[Diesel Gypsy]

I am pretty sure it is Amazon. I guarantee .... you ordering two shellac sticks, or ten, from Instrumentclinic.com in Michigan ...and having him ship it in a Priority International box...is NOT gonna cost $90.

Contact him and ask.

Also, in defense of Amazon, Often they will be able to supply US made stuff considerably cheaper than the company has quoted me to ship direct! I don't understand how that works but that's what I've found.

 

[PigSquealer]

It is IMHO a very distant second to shellac. Some techs swear by glue, but for me and I think the majority, shellac is superior....

You & I both, Still I find HMG a valid option for those in cooler climates. The grade of HMG makes a huge difference too. Like no strings, molten to liquid melt point, plastic state working time, and stability. I have a big issue with stability. IMHO HMG expands and contracts too much for fine adjustment floating. Small pads are doable. Large like lower stack & bell keys I find shellac superior like Stephen mentioned.

 

[PigSquealer]

Also, in defense of Amazon, Often they will be able to supply US made stuff considerably cheaper than the company has quoted me to ship direct! I don't understand how that works but that's what I've found.

Nothing to loose by calling Instrument Clinic, Music Medic or Ferees. They all deal internationally.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not a stranger to replacing pads on my horns but I'm no professional. Just too far away from any techs (and too cheap!) to get their help.
Also, I have always done all my own mechanical work on everything, from farm equipment to semi trucks to computers and radios and yes, saxophones!
I might not be any good but I work really cheap!

I have never used hot glue. My wife uses it for some of her crafts and the mess (trying to be kind here!) has always made me want to stay far far away!

I too have a very diverse mechanical background. Saxophones will challenge you in ways you don’t see coming until it’s too late.
If you’re doing pad work with plastic domes, watch the heat ! It doesn’t take much to warp them ! Study the heat working range of everything on a sax. IE some solder melts before lacquer burns. Shellac melts before solder. Pearls don’t tolerate an open flame. Felt zero around an open flame, but hot air is not a problem.
It’s all the small stuff that ruins or makes your day.

 

[Diesel Gypsy]

I too have a very diverse mechanical background. Saxophones will challenge you in ways you don’t see coming until it’s too late.
If you’re doing pad work with plastic domes, watch the heat ! It doesn’t take much to warp them ! Study the heat working range of everything on a sax. IE some solder melts before lacquer burns. Shellac melts before solder. Pearls don’t tolerate an open flame. Felt zero around an open flame, but hot air is not a problem.
It’s all the small stuff that ruins or makes your day.

Thanks for the warnings, I have a small heat gun - 500*F on low. Wish it went a little lower but it works.
I've never used plastic rezos and I'm not planning to but you never know. . .
I've also never soldered on a saxophone and I have a couple of small places that are going to need some so that worry's me a little. Don't want to scorch the lacquer.

Do you know what temp lacquer starts burning at?
I've never had a problem with the low temps used when changing pads, but solder?

Come to think about it, all the pads I've changed on my other saxes were plated keys. The Beaugnier has that pretty sparkle lacquer on the keys! 😱

My old Beaugnier also has an air leak up high somewhere that I can't find (yet). I've clamped the pads down tight and I still get it so I'm hoping it is in a pad that I just can't see so maybe new pads will cure it.
Before you say it, I put a new pad on the neck octave pip and it passes the vacuum test. The tenon has a suspicious area at the clamp area but I jammed plastic down with the neck and it didn't change it at all. So I'm hoping the pad change will be the cure!

 

[Woodpad]

My old Beaugnier also has an air leak up high somewhere that I can't find (yet). I've clamped the pads down tight and I still get it so I'm hoping it is in a pad that I just can't see so maybe new pads will cure it.
Before you say it, I put a new pad on the neck octave pip and it passes the vacuum test. The tenon has a suspicious area at the clamp area but I jammed plastic down with the neck and it didn't change it at all. So I'm hoping the pad change will be the cure!

Now the neck octave pip is ok you might want to check the next octave pad. My simple test is playing the saxophone to know how good it is. Put a drop of silicone paste in the top of the second octave pip and seal it with thin plastic foil. Play again and if the first octave is the same the pad is ok. put some foil around the leather pad and remove the silicone paste. There will be some traces of paste left but you can remove them easily after 24 hours as silicone paste doesn't stick to brass.

 

[JayeNM]

No, it's not Amazon. I have the same issues ordering direct from US sellers. The freight or mail charges are ridiculous and they make people shop elsewhere.
UPS is especially bad. They can easily take 2-3 weeks+ to get something to me and the freight/exchange is terrible. Part of the long delivery time is because UPS is just a US shipper and they don't have any good partners outside the US. But US companies seem to like them, I suppose, because they are convenient for them. For me? Not so much!

Did you email and ask ? Instrumentclinic uses US Post, which is very cheap for small international parcels. UPS charges a brokerage fee which is what makes them more expensive to CA.

US Post does not.

Unless you inquire with the proprietor, you dunno how much the ship would be...

Amazon is evil, too....so....

 

[PigSquealer]

Do you know what temp lacquer starts burning at?
I've never had a problem with the low temps used when changing pads, but solder?

What year and maker ? Original or relac ? Nitrocellous ?
There is a range below burning and above solder. +/- 250°
Some burn at 500° others at 750°.
Solder, 240°-430°
Don’t soak a lacquered sax /parts in warm water. It will remove the lacquer.

 

[turf3]

What year and maker ? Original or relac ? Nitrocellous ?
There is a range below burning and above solder. +/- 250°
Some burn at 500° others at 750°.
Solder, 240°-430°
Don’t soak a lacquered sax /parts in warm water. It will remove the lacquer.

Unless it's that bombproof Conn stuff from the 70s. Which will, however, discolor at soft soldering temps. And it'll still be darn near impossible to remove with solvents.

 

[Diesel Gypsy]

What year and maker ? Original or relac ? Nitrocellous ?
There is a range below burning and above solder. +/- 250°
Some burn at 500° others at 750°.
Solder, 240°-430°
Don’t soak a lacquered sax /parts in warm water. It will remove the lacquer.

The year - 1957
The maker - Beaugnier
Original sparkle lacquer
Nitrocellous? I have no idea!

 

[PigSquealer]

The year - 1957
The maker - Beaugnier
Original sparkle lacquer
Nitrocellous? I have no idea!

Dunno 🤷‍♂️ haven’t done any solder work on one of those. Some discolor just before smoking then burn.
What kind of torch, fuel and how you work / present the heat will determine the outcome too. I always count when heating anything, 3 on 3 off as an example for soldering. Let the part absorb the heat.

Buy a junker and practice on that. One that’s bent, dented, has plastic dome boosters etc. Think of it as a tool, a $50 learning tool. Stress relief included in your purchase.

Nitrocellous lacquer is commonly used on musical instruments to this day. I’m sure you’ve seen a shiny stringed instrument.

If you’re unfortunate and burn a bit, it can be doctored. Color matching is challenging….another skill to the list.

You find affordable shellac yet ?