What embouchure?

[lovefool]

I've heard that quite a few pros use a kind of lippy embouchure in which the lower lip does not sit on the teeth.

I'm just starting out - has anyone learned this way from the beginning?

I gather it's pretty hard to change your embouchure, so it would be good to start out with a really good one even if it takes a little longer.

Keira

 

[Pete Thomas]

Hi Keira

Have a look here on the main site:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/saxophone-embouchure.html

 

[mick_wilson]

i think i use it i use the muscles from my lips and jaw my teeth sit behind my lip but not under i find its more natural to me. I cant explain how it works . sorry. if you want to see and here it in action http://hk.youtube.com/user/WilsonMick
🙂 howevwer i just changed my ligature which has made me think more about my embouchure :-(

 

[lovefool]

ok thanks, I read that bit.. I guess it's like you say - both are valid. I'll probably stick with the standard lower lip-cushion method for now and see how it goes.
Kx

 

[andyblackard]

Pete Thomas wrote:
Hi Keira

Have a look here on the main site:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/saxophone-embouchure.html

Pete, I learned the classical way when I was a kid- with the bottom lip fully over the bottom teeth. When I started playing again, 5 months ago, my teacher taught me to just barely have the bottom lip cover the teeth. I immediately found that it was much easier to breath by lowering the bottom jaw using the non-classical embouchure. Its far easier for me to re-form this position after taking a deep breathe than to pull the bottom lip fully over the teeth (classical). Therefore, it also gives me more time to breathe. It also seems to provide a wider range of tone control because the lip itself is in contact with the reed/mouthpiece instead of the outer skin of the lower jaw. Furthermore, this embouchure allows me to avoid breathing around the mouthpiece - which is noisy. I'm sure you know all this, but I thought some other beginners/restarters might be interested.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Very interesting actually I hadn't thought of it like that

 

[andyblackard]

Pete, I have a different teacher now. But my first teacher was a student-of-a-student of Phil Wood so this may come from him - but I wouldn't know for sure. Any way, he taught me to breathe by dropping the lower jaw (and tongue) and inhaling sharply and deeply as if pronouncing the word "how" while inhaling. The top teeth and upper lip stay in position on the mouthpiece.

This technique seems to allow me to take in more air more quickly than before. Pronouncing the syllable "how" on inhalation also seems to bring the bottom lip right back into playing position after breathing. This breathing technique helped me so much, so I thought I'd pass it along.

 

[justin_chune]

Hi Keira. If I were you I'd go for the lippy embouchure as you describe it. I've seen this referred to as the "pouch mouth" embouchure. The idea is to look into a mirror and observe the shape of your mouth as you say pouch mouth. Now do that again and this time hold your mouth in that position as you insert and suck your thumb. Observe that shape and replicate it with your sax. With my embouchure formed I can still run the tip of my tongue along the cutting edge of my lower teeth. So, no bitten lip for me.

I read the Ben Davis book that Pete refers to and changed right away. It's a real sweet way of playing the sax. Have fun.

 

[bethany]

hi

when i first started learning i was told to put my top teeth on the top and to put my bottom lip on top of my bottom teeth. when i was starting i never used my bottom lip but over time i've changed. so i think you should just start off with a fairly standard embochure and eventually without realising it will change to suit how you play. this what happened to me and apparently i have a very good embochure (according to my teacher anyway).

 

[Bobby G]

I think the bottom lip over the teeth to a varying degree is the most commonly used embouchure for newer players (and maybe a lot of experienced ones too), but as your chops strengthen you may want to try the bottom-lip-pushed-out embouchure. Initially when you try this it's easier in the lower register than the higher, but after a while you'll find the higher register is as easy to play in this way once you've got your lip strength up a bit. For me, it allows more flexibilty of tone.

 

[Simon]

Yep good point Bethany.

I started with a teacher who thought of the whole embouchure thing like a 'wheel', equal pressure from all sides.

Over time I realised that if you push down from the top teeth, you'll get into the habit of pushing up with the jaw, which isn't good. Some people move their jaw back n forward quite alot too, but I've found that throat and tongue position gets me the sound I want.
I find that I support with the sides of the mouth and completely forget about top n bottom lip / teeth.

Like you said, it changes over time - for me, depending on the sound I want.

Simon

bethany wrote:
hi

when i first started learning i was told to put my top teeth on the top and to put my bottom lip on top of my bottom teeth. when i was starting i never used my bottom lip but over time i've changed. so i think you should just start off with a fairly standard embochure and eventually without realising it will change to suit how you play. this what happened to me and apparently i have a very good embochure (according to my teacher anyway).

 

[Kinda]

Can I just thank everyone for a brilliant topic which has now got me thinking about my own embouchure and how I do it. Since I've had to think what I do myself I'm hopefully now on the way to developing a better sound.

Thanks