Saxophones Vito models and parts

[qualitybandrepair]

Possibly the pin shaft fitting that hole has gone missing? If you temporarily remove the other key with the black plastic pivot, may reveal this.

Nah, I disassembled the other one and the pin in it is part of the key lever, they are not separate parts. That's the confusing bit

 

[qualitybandrepair]

probably a bit of O1 rod pressed in. Could be threaded in too.

That's what I assumed at first. I can't find any evidence of a seam or even a solder joint between the one I do have. Its very strange. I'll post more pictures tomorrow

 

[Stephen Howard]

Honestly the "not made of metal" part is what I hate. They can Crack and warp easier, get lost easier, and as a tech i can't just bend em to fix em. I have to try and buy a replacement part, which is...impossible basically.

I think I've only ever seen a cracked one (on a Yamaha), and that was because of impact damage. I've never lost one - but if I did I have about half a dozen spares. And if I didn't have any spares I'd bung a bit of Delrin in the lathe and knock up a new one.

 

[PigSquealer]

I'd bung a bit of Delrin in the lathe and knock up a new one.

Aka, nylon. Yeah..

 

[turf3]

No wait, the side C is the one that DOES have the black plastic. The b flat has this hole instead of a rod and the black plastic this is either lost or never existed. Either way some piece is missing

I have it in a billion pieces right now, so I forget which is which lol

Looks like there is supposed to be a pin that fits into a hole in the key and a hole in the plastic block. Probably a light press fit into the key and of course a slip fit in the block. Get a piece of drill rod of appropriate diameter, clean the hole thoroughly, and install it to the key with low strength Loctite and bob's your uncle, I believe.

 

[turf3]

Aka, nylon. Yeah..

Delrin is not nylon.

However, either would be suitable.

 

[qualitybandrepair]

Looks like there is supposed to be a pin that fits into a hole in the key and a hole in the plastic block. Probably a light press fit into the key and of course a slip fit in the block. Get a piece of drill rod of appropriate diameter, clean the hole thoroughly, and install it to the key with low strength Loctite and bob's your uncle, I believe.

Yeah, if i had the plastic bit I would. But i don't even HAVE the little plastic bit. I got a key from Jupiter/KHS that is very nearly the same I'm going to cut down to the correct size. I dont like the plastic mechanism anyway.

 

[ghostler]

Delrin is not nylon.

Delrin is a superior product to use in this application. I would understand why @Stephen Howard would choose this material as a replacement.

I have Cox brand model aeroplane product engines of 0.049 cubic inch displacement (0.08 cc) from the 1960's with Dupont Delrin backs, which provide the carburation and mounting for ready-to-fly scale flying models. The backs after all these years are still crack free and function as intended. Nylon would not be able to put up with this type heat and aging.

Of course on a saxophone it would not be exposed to the heat extremes of an internal combustion engine, but its aging characteristics without cracking would be its forte for a long lasting part.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Delrin is a superior product to use in this application. I would understand why @Stephen Howard would choose this material as a replacement.

I find that Delrin (acetyl) turns better than nylon - but doesn't take glueing as well as other plastics.

 

[ghostler]

I find that Delrin (acetyl) turns better than nylon - but doesn't take glueing as well as other plastics.

It is rather slick stuff IMO, which lends its use well in this key hinging application.

Regarding nylon, to retain its health from cracking, one manufacturer of nylon model plane propellers most prolific in the 1960's to 1970's had instructions to boil the props before use and periodically to rejuvenate its hydration. One rejected use of old stock nylon props because they had a tendency without warning to throw a blade. The hammering impulse of a model engine's internal combustion cycle could further weaken the micro-cracks in the nylon.

That manufacturer discontinued nylon prop production in the early 1990's due to liabilities with using nylon. I used them because I could buy several Top Flite props for the price of wood or another plastic. Blades were notoriously out of balance, so I'd sand the back side of the heavier blade until it balanced.

Its beauty was that it could take repeated ground strikes without breaking if flown off a grassed field. Other props would shatter upon strike.

So, it could be expected as the plastic ages, it could fail in sax usage once sufficiently aged, crack and split. Delrin makes a lasting repair in this sax application, IMO.

 

[qualitybandrepair]

Yeah, seems like the need to bend stuff wasn’t engineered in for repair. I’m still learning and don’t know about these things. Looking forward the the results of your $80 score.

ITS ALIVE, made my Frankenkey. Time for bed, we'll see how it works tomorrow

 

[qualitybandrepair]

 

[PigSquealer]

I was offered a Beaugnier alto yesterday. I noticed the side C & Bb were similar in fabrication. Original or tech reworked? I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of the horn. Wasn’t really interested in another free horn. That’s how much I thought about it….

 

[qualitybandrepair]

I was offered a Beaugnier alto yesterday. I noticed the side C & Bb were similar in fabrication. Original or tech reworked? I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of the horn. Wasn’t really interested in another free horn. That’s how much I thought about it….
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Huh, wild. The things you take for granted as a player suddenly become the things you notice all over the place as a tech 😆.

I'm nearly done regulating the thing. I'll post a video playing the horn on my YouTube channel once I finish. The G# pad's rod on this Vito is REALLY grindy. The spring on the key is hard core thick and its still not powerful enough to push it back down. Got a customer horns to work tonight though, so more Wed or Thurs.

 

[qualitybandrepair]

Also those are brass too though, greater longevity, easier to manipulate as a tech imho. Never messed with a Beauniger are they any good?

 

[turf3]

Beaugniers are almost unknown but yes, they're good horns.

 

[PigSquealer]

Also those are brass too though, greater longevity, easier to manipulate as a tech imho.

That’s what I found interesting. I also noticed the keywork in nickel plated.

Never messed with a Beauniger are they any good?

No clue. The horn in hand felt and looked of decent quality build. This taking in account an age likely 60+.
Vito Pascucci was a quality oriented man. He didn’t sell junk.

 

[PigSquealer]

He didn’t sell junk.

Let me quality this. Mr Pascucci marketed quality good at fair price points. There’s many still be used and enjoyed decades later.

 

[skeller047]

Also those are brass too though, greater longevity, easier to manipulate as a tech imho. Never messed with a Beauniger are they any good?

I own a very nice SBA alto, that I bought it 1974. I’ll never part with it.

I also own a Vito Model 37 alto, made by Beaugnier, and a model 38 alto in silver plate, labeled Beaugnier, made for a music store in Dijon. This is the same model that Vito marketed as “The Duke”.

Both of these instruments sound as good as my SBA. They are very in tune. The keywork is a little clunky, especially low C# on the Model 37. But not bad at all when set up properly. Ted Nash, the great saxophonist who was with the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra for 11years, plays a Model 37 alto.

Noblet and LeBlanc saxes are almost all made by Beaugnier, including all the Rationale versions. Beaugnier was not owned by LeBlanc, or by Vito, but there may have been some long term business arrangement between them. Saxes with a Beaugnier label are rare, but they made a lot of horns.

An interesting side note is that the Beaugnier factory was literally around the corner from Selmer. I have read many places that factory employees often worked in both locations, but there is no official documentation to support that. There is very little documentation on Beaugnier at all, because of a fire in its factory sometime in the late 1960’s (I think).

In the USA, it’s pretty easy to find Beaugnier-made Vito saxes, and they are worth looking for. They play extremely well. They aren’t very expensive, either. I paid $279 for my Model 37, it needed a good cleaning and a repad, and less than $1K for the silver Model 38, including shipping from Germany. That one needed no work. The one exception to the low price might be the alto that Johnny Hodges played…