Thumb hooks and hand pains

[oliver_bentley]

Just a quicky - I've taken the lower thumb hook off my tennor, its a mk7 n pulls my thumb out of position when I play, giving me pains inbetween my tumb and hand. Only really had it since really stepping up my practice these past few months (bout 6+ hours playing a day) Seen one thumb rest out there thats meant to be more ergonomic (http://www.justflutes.com/pages/product-detail11914.htm) But v expensive. Does anyone know of any alternatives? ANy other sugestions?

Playing with out it is much better than with, but means more strain on my other thumb. Also my lower thumb creeps up and starts to rest on the side F* tone hole, meaning when I come to use it, it dont work.

Cheers,
Oli

 

[Pete Thomas]

I think you'll do yourself some damage. A good repairer will be able to either realign yours, make a new one or source a good ready made one for you that isn't so expensive.

 

[rhysonsax]

I'm surprised that you can't find a comfortable position by adjusting the Mk 7's hook - Selmers are normally pretty good, but I suppose it depends on hand size too. I think there were some complaints about the ergonomics of the Mk 7 compared with the Mk VI.

I've heard very good things about the Ton Kooiman Forza thumbrest that you point to, but it is really pricey. I was speaking to him about getting it fitted to my Buffet S-1 soprano, but I got Steve Howard to move round the existing thumbrest and that improved my wrist position and took away the pain.

There are some alternative thumbhooks around, and they are cheaper than the Forza.

http://www.musicmedic.com/catalog/products/part-th100.html

Is $35 from Musicmedic.com

A similar looking thumbhook is available from Saxgourmet (Steve Goodson) for $40.

http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/index.php?cPath=2_44_4

In the UK, Windcraft has some thumbrest cushions listed but no replacement hooks. They are the sort of place that might have something tucked away and not on their website, so you could give them a ring or email.

https://www.windcraft.co.uk/

My old teacher, Ken Stubbs, played his Yamaha alto with the thumbhook removed. I think it was supposed to free up his right hand and the weight should really be taken on the sling, with the two thumbs just providing balancing points. It might be a bit tougher on the tenor.

Hope that it works out OK

Rhys

 

[oliver_bentley]

The problem is not supporting the weight, its that the thumb hook is too low. Say if you held a glass with your whole hand, your thumb would be level with you for-finger. Thats about where it needs to be on the sax, but with the mk7 its really low, the thumb is level with my 4th finger, which when your fingers are spread thats quite a long way down.

Prob is the side f# tone hole is ideally where the thumb hook would be ergonomically, but most saxes compromise this. But with mk7 being really "big" as in for big hands (which I have, huge infact, so fits me really well. Apart for this) the thumb hook is too low and was really hurting to play with it down there.

Without the hook is miles better, but theres the issue of the thumb resting onto the tone hole above, so really need hook, or somewhere to place the thumb at least to offer that bit extra support. (dont take any weight on it, just stop it moving side to side.)

So looks, as you say, like a custom job. Might try get in touch with Steven Howard, though takes some time to get through. Any suggestions in the mean time would be great.

Thanks Pete n Rhys,
oli

 

[jonf]

Hi Oli

I reckon pretty much any sax repairer could re-position the existing hook. Should be a quick and fairly cheap job. Sounds rather like yours was misaligned at the factory - I've never heard of one so low.

I have payed a tenor without the thumb hook before, and like you, I found my thumb crept up the back of the sax. What I did - and what follows is one of my dodgy tips, along the lines of using sellotape to hold on a reed when I couldn't find a lig to fit - was put a blob of bluetack above where my thumb should be, as a sort of stop. Worked a treat. Needs to be peeled off carefully to avoind marking the laquer.

 

[oliver_bentley]

cool cheers.

Think its not so much the alighnment - its one you can adjust, just not high enough. Think I;ve got freaky hands tbh, wierd proportion. Would be good to have some sort of stop that wasnt a hook that went right over the thumb, just sort of a stop - blue tac sounds like a good temp cheers, though will be careful with the laquer.

Oli

 

[Bobby G]

I don't know the Mk7 at all, but if the thumb hook is adjustable, that implies you could take it off, in which case a new longer hook could be fitted.

The only other person I know of with a Mk7 is sometime contributor to the forum Simon Spillett, if he was about he might be able to offer some help or advice.

 

[suethesax]

Ollie - if I remember correctly you are at LCM? Pop along to Stuart at Woodwind Exchange in Bradford and he'll adjust you Selmer hook to suit you. Or maybe All Brass & Woodwind in Leeds York Street, I think. Sorry if you've already tried them.

 

[simonspill]

Not much I can add to the above except to say that I found the plastic thumb rest a bit awkward at first (10 years ago) but that I just got used to it - as the numb callus on my thumb illustrates perfectly!

Thinking about it, I've never ever adjusted the thumb rest and when I play my thumb doesn't exactly fit its contours, so I guess I must have just played through the pain.

Yes, 7's were partially designed by a very very large guy at Selmer (Johnny Griffin was originally on board as an advisor but pulled out when allegedly - no pun intended - he and the other guy didn't see eye to eye). I don't think I have especially big hands and I seem to get on OK, so it's not simply a question of hand size.

We could go on an amplify this further to aspects of exactly where you place your fingers on the keys - either neatly on the pearls or over onto the brass itself........that can make a big difference to your general playing comfort.

I know Mulligan was fond of playing the baritone without using the thumb rest (watch film footage of him and you'll see him flick the side keys with his thumb).

 

[PhilRo]

I play a '41 Conn10 with a fixed hook - I have seriously large pain in my numb thumb, the whole thing. A great friend lent me the horn, while he concentrated on Trumpet and now he says, yeah it caused some problems for me too! What can I do! Help me please. The hook is positioned very low indeed. Any comments appreciated, I can't stop playing. I play in a Ska Band, don't have much time to practice, am 39 years old and play about 2 - 4 hours a week (boo hoo, I know students do that in a day, but I have a great 18 month old boy)!

 

[Thaumaturge]

Phil,

I have a 1935 10m and have no thumb problems. Are you sure you are not supporting some of the weight of the saxophone with your thumb? Pete has a 10m near the same year as yours so it will be interesting to hear his opinion.

Colin

 

[PhilRo]

Thanks for the instant response! I probably am supporting some weight. I do like to hold the body vertically, thinking about it. Just spoke to John Packers and they said that they can move the rest, but its not my instrument! I played the thing for a few months when it was leaking very badly and have almost certainly got into bad habits. I used to go to an awesome teacher, about time I went back and got his opinion. THanks.

 

[oliver_bentley]

Hi thanks for all the replies. The pain is more ion the fleshy muscle between thumb and rest of hand, but taking of the hook has largely sorted this. Now found quite comfortable place fo my thumb, about an inch further round the horn, and about half an inch higher. Gettin work done soon by All brass and wwind (see other thread) so am getting a re-adjustment of hook then.

Cheers for all input,

Oli