Theory & Impro This is exactly how dissonant each interval is

Good point, I think acoustics was something I wish I had learned more about, I think many musicians don't even know about just intonation
That’s probable. But unless you set out your playing in a certain way, or play in a string quartet it’s of limited value. Your string quartet is fine until you play a piano quintet.

I played many a Mozart / Brahms Clarinet Quintet and the tuning was definitely noticeable.
 
The idea of the Devil's chord was an invention of the twentieth century, back in the early days there was a devil's interval, but even then it could happen by chance as polyphony
Yeah, and of course the saxophone has been referred to as the "devil's horn" (or at least I have a book on the history of the sax with that title). I also think I've heard the tritone called the 'devil's interval'. And it's true that a tritone on its own is pretty dissonant. But then, put it in a dominant 7th chord (I'd suggest the tritone defines the dominant chord) and it sounds fine. Of course, a dominant chord does have a certain amount of tension which can be increased somewhat with altered extensions. But that's what makes it a useful chord; it wants to resolve, providing motion.

And then there's the diminished 7th chord that is made up of a pair of tritones. I guess plenty of people would consider the dim7 chord as dissonant, but it sounds fine (good) to my ear, better than a simple tritone interval. I'd agree that it has tension, though, again a useful harmonic device.
 
I also think I've heard the tritone called the 'devil's interval'.
Yes well that really was a thing back in the early days, it is the reason for the mistakenly attributed devil's chord to the music of those days. That said, there was some kickback against Monterverdi's dominant 7, not least because the 7th came unprepared - it would have been OK had it been in the prvious chord thus "preparing" the ears for the shock and horror.
 
With respect, playing music has been a thing for thousands of years - the medieval period is hardly early... Unless mankind has millions of yeas to go (doubtful)... Which could make us early, of course.
I know that, but I was talking in the context of the discussion about the devil's chord/interval which is a thing in what is known academically as Early Music that includes mostly mediaeval and renaissance, so it's not really relevant to the music that came before that wherein, as far as I know, the devil's interval wasn't mentioned. But maybe it was.
 
The perspective of what constitutes 'early' has changed, particularly over the last 50 years or so. It used to refer to pre-classical music i.e. basically baroque and earlier so pre-1750.

These days, baroque is regarded as pretty mainstream and so most would think pre-baroque which puts us around 1600 which is usually regarded as the boundary between the late Renaissance and the early Baroque. Medieval - circa pre-1400
 
I think with the saxophone pitch being flexible and needing player input, many of us are using just temperament without knowing about it.

Dissonance is but tension. Harmony is calm.

View: https://youtu.be/6NlI4No3s0M?si=Y3BHawc0TOWePAKN
So, one is a Cool signature and the other is mere scribble ? 😉

Seriously though, dissonance isn't just tension, it depends upon context, and as has been said; where you grew up, what you were exposed to etc. We're all pretty used to dominate 7th chords being used as a chord 1 too (and most every other chord), and letting them be un-resolved. Where does Toru Takemitsu sit in all this talk of dissonance ?
 
I know that, but I was talking in the context of the discussion about the devil's chord/interval which is a thing in what is known academically as Early Music that includes mostly mediaeval and renaissance
And of course, the mediaeval period was not without considerable superstitious beliefs (much of it still far from eradicated even today). Witches, black cats, the devil, etc. The saxophone obviously didn't exist back then; I wonder what they would have thought of it, if it had been introduced!
Seriously though, dissonance isn't just tension, it depends upon context, and as has been said; where you grew up, what you were exposed to etc. We're all pretty used to dominate 7th chords being used as a chord 1 too (and most every other chord), and letting them be un-resolved.
Yeah, take the blues for exhibit A. I guess in the blues most of the tension-release is in the V-IV-I or II-V-I changes. Not to mention the 'blue notes' (discussed elsewhere). But then the blues don't necessarily obey all the "rules" of harmony.

There's a famous quote of James Brown: When he was told an arrangement he had made wasn't harmonically 'correct', he simply said something like, "but does it sound good?!" Which is what matters most, of course.
 
Interesting that dissonance is just about where you grow up, what you're used to...
I'd love to hear an example of 12 tone music with the 5th, let alone 8th being dissonant.

The material I posted does show how that can happen in 7tet or something... But that's physics. I'd like a real world example.
 
For anyone interested, I have managed to retrieve the missing image from the first post, which gives the first few pages of the thread some more relevance and context.

dissonance.webp
 
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I'd love to hear an example of 12 tone music with the 5th, let alone 8th being dissonant.
Well, Schoenberg wrote a 12 tone piece for piano, as I’m sure others did. If the piano used equal temperament tuning then your wish is granted.

Needed to check - Alban Berg wrote a Chamber Concerto. He was a pupil of Schoenberg and developed Serialism further. His ideas and orchestration make Serialism far more listenable than it should be imo. The music is quite “settled “ at times. Interesting stuff, clever guy.
 
For anyone interested, I have managed to retrieve the missing image from the first post, which gives the first few pages of the thread some more relevance and context.
So the work used in the video I posted does do what the OP wanted by used the "full" harmonic series of each tone. And can account for various tuning systems including non-12tet. That makes is more powerful...
 

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