The Truth, a monumentus day for our city

[trimmy]

I won't make this political but would just like to express to my family(forum) how this day has made me feel so proud to be a scouser. Over the last 23 years we have had to put up with a lot of sneering from people about the tradegy or maybe travesty is more appropriate which occured at Hillsborough on 15.04.1989. Millions of people can now see the truth for themselves and can now believe innocent fans were let down by the police, the emergency services, and the goverment.
I am very proud of the Hillsborough family support group for the commitment they have shown over such a long period of time to achieve what they have done today, their dedication is to be applauded.
Listening on the radio today and then attending the vigil at St Georges hall and hearing the speeches from the family of the victims was very emotional.
The quote of the day came from a man who lost his 2 daughters, Mr Trevor Hicks
"The truth came out today, justice starts tommorow"

 

[old git]

Hear, hear, Trimmy.

The reason I am not a member of AOBs and its successor, is that Kelvin Mackenzie could be a member.

 

[Jules]

Hear, hear, Trimmy.

.

+1 from here....

 

[nakedlunch]

There are many people who should be ashamed of themselves - Boris Johnson, Kelvin Mackenzie, Irvine Patnick and there are others who should face justice and do time for this - those Policemen who colluded in the cover up, members of the late 80's cabinet and Maggie Thatcher herself.
Am also trying to not make this political but there are a certain type/class of people who look down with contempt on ordinary people, especially if they live up north.
My thoughts are with those who have had to live through this injustice and put up with the crap from people like Boris Johnson and Kelvin Mackenzie. Let's now hope they can see the culprits be punished for their crimes.

 

[BUMNOTE]

Realy pleased for the people of Liverpool,now get the people who did the cover ups,including the curse of the country at the time Thatcher.Bumnote.

 

[kevgermany]

Guys, I sympathise and am horrified at what's starting to come out. I'm amazed at the calm and dignified way those affected have handled things so far.

Please remember two things -
Those affected, and their families - on both sides of the situation.
Forum rules.

We're about on the limit of what's acceptable and I don't want to see Trimmy's thoughts degenerate into a slanging session.

 

[Andrew Sanders]

I've tried three times to reply to you Trimmy but the politics keep getting in the way.
As a South Yorkshireman who was appalled at the police tactics towards the striking miners, I'm really not surprised at their lack of humanity. I agree with Nakedlunch. The day of reconning is upon them, police, politicians, the press.
Andy

 

[nakedlunch]

Guys, I sympathise and am horrified at what's starting to come out. I'm amazed at the calm and dignified way those affected have handled things so far.

Please remember two things -
Those affected, and their families - on both sides of the situation.
Forum rules.

We're about on the limit of what's acceptable and I don't want to see Trimmy's thoughts degenerate into a slanging session.

I understand your concerns for forum rules but nothing unacceptable has been said yet. Those affected and the families of the victims have been on the radio today saying similar things about the people and institutions listed above - I think it is only fair that everone else shares such sentiments.

I cannot think of anything in living history which has involved this much evil collution between institutions that we are meant to trust. I think it is the duty of everyone to ensure that pressure is put on the authorities to bring to book all those involved.

 

[trimmy]

Guys thank you for your comments and support, which we have received plenty from outside the city even before yesterdays release, i posted on here and another site i use as both sites are very supportive and friendly. In my opening remark i did say i wont make this a political, firstly becsuse i dont know enough of what goes on in the political arena and secondly politics bores me.
I could go off in a tangent and slag all involved but what does it achieve ? It may get rid of a bit of frustration but i doubt it, hopefully those responsible will be brought to book.
The sense of relief around the city is that the doubt that has been hanging over us for 23years has been lifted, that is and was the main objective of the Hillsborough support group, 96 fans died and it wasnt our fans that caused it we can say that now and the rest of the country know we are telling the truth.

 

[aldevis]

I cannot think of anything in living history which has involved this much evil collution between institutions that we are meant to trust.

Dangerously slipping into politics:
Please consider yourselves lucky to live in a country where truth eventually comes out. There are other "civilized" European countries where this would be still unthinkable.

My sympathy to families.

 

[saxplorer]

It's hard to even imagine what the families and friends of those who were there must have gone through all these years. And the solidarity from the people of Liverpool has been impressive. More strength to you all. "You'll Never Walk Alone" for next ballad of the month?

 

[navarro]

Great day for Liverpool and in particular for the bereaved families who have fought for justice. One aspect of this does leave me feeling slightly uneasy though, the cause being, most of the newspapers are headlining ` Justice at last` however unless my memory is failing I can not remember any newspaper going into investigative mode at the time or shortly afterwards.

Maybe this horrific coverup would have come to light much earlier had the press corps put their mind to it. (Please correct me if anyone knows differently.)

Okay their excuse might have been difficult to get information at that level in those days. My answer to that is, it did not stop our esteemed press years before in getting highly classified info. Quote `The Profumo Affair` 1963. `The Lord Lambton Expose.` 1973.

The Taylor Report 1990 the official inquiry did conclude with the statement `Main reason was the failure of police control.`
Full stop. Nice cover up hidden under the blanket of recommendations for seating etc. in all stands.

Congratulations The Independent Hillsborough Inquiry Panel. The truth is out. N.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Good time for a bit of the truth, may help nip the secret inquest movement in the bud. It is just sooooo
inconvenient to have the little people forever piping up about their concerns. Fraid cant say I am surprised by what went on. Only thing I cant understand is having done the crime, that is falsifying statements and perverting the course of justice etc, why did they not destroy the originals? Perhaps they really were that arrogant.

 

[kevgermany]

some good news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19922092

 

[trimmy]

^^^^^
Tis very good news, some sleepless nights ahead for certain members of the forces !

 

[kevgermany]

^^^^^
Tis very good news, some sleepless nights ahead for certain members of the forces !

There's an old latin phrase: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Which in this context would be "Who monitors the police?". We're finally starting to find out, but it's been a long time coming.

There's a good discussion of the phrase in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes?

It's an age old problem.


In terms of Hillsborough I fear we're past the stage where an objective report will be acceptable. There are many things which contributed to the disaster and people want a scapegoat. Many people are closed to any argument except that it was the police's fault. Clearly there's significant blame here which resulted in the cover-up. But I wonder how many of us would be able to deal with a crowd like that using a stadium with such an appalling design and poor safety features. Sadly the cover-up performed by the police makes it really difficult to do much that's objective, except punish those who covered up.

At least people, including the police, have learnt from what happened, and we've seen many improvements in stadium design, crowd control... And we must contrast it with the many honest, dedicated police who carry out a difficult, dangerous job. Like the two young ladies who lost their lives in Manchester recently.

 

[trimmy]

An interesting phrase Kev, hopefully the police monitor themselves moreso now than ever before, if not, that's were we have to trust the IPCC who over the years have dealt with 'bad apples' within the force. Where as before it would have been brushed under the carpet.
I have an enormous amount of respect for the police and the very difficult job they do, the job they do today is probably the hardest in it's existance with they eye of the world watching. If they make a mistake now they are held accountable in so much as they lose their career, but majority of times they are not punished by the laws of the land that we have to abide by !!
Example....http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/17/simon-harwood-sacked-gross-misconduct

It does make you wonder who, when or if anyone will be made accountable only time will tell !! My belief is they will make a scapegoat(s) for Hillsborough but it won't go high enough.

'Who presides over who' ?