Subtones.

impulse · Dec 23, 2006

It has been said that a rounder more mellow tone can be helped by playing subtones. What`s a subtone ? Is it trying to add some lower harmonic frequencies to the normal pure tone and if so how do you do that?

Bobby G · Dec 23, 2006

Hi Russ, I am a bit of a self-taught layman, but this is my take on subtone; you seem to know how it should sound, and the way to get that sound is to take less mouthpiece in your mouth, and play with a more relaxed embouchure and softer tonguing.

As I understand it, a note comprises of the base harmonic, or pure tone, with a combination of various harmonics to give the note it's timbre laid over the ba e tone. Hence when you are playing and changing your tone you are enhancing/emphasising or reducing various harmonics of the basic note (if I remember right this basic note is called the fundanental). And you thought changing your tone was just wiggling your lips, tongue and throat 😉

I suppose an analogy for subtone would be it's like turning down the treble control on your stereo which gives the impression of increasing the lower frequencies.

Also, it's most frequently used on tenor, but also sounds nice on alto, and tends to work best (for me anyway) on the lowest one-and-a-half octaves.

Cheers, Bob

Linky Lee · Dec 23, 2006

Subtone is also quiet. though you can get the sound and feel of subtone to fill a room but it's never 'loud' loud.

Bob's description was great. I feel that to get the best subtone it's helpful to have a nicely played in reed, or one that is rather moist.

To improve a rounder more mellow tone I wouldn't say that playing subtone would help it all that much. they're different techniques.

To introduce a more mellow tone into your general playing I would suggest, more air support by doing breathing exercises, smoother tonguing, though still articulate, and a more open throat. You'll have to watch your intonation here as it could be different with a more open throat and you'll have to learn where and how to compensate.

impulse · Dec 23, 2006

Thanks Lee and Bob great replies. You have described what I`m aiming for precisely. I`ve play cello and violin regularly and have done for 15 yrs. I love the warmth and tone that I can get from these instruments but have been struggling with the saxes. Practice, practice and long tones but I`m really only achieving the tone I want if I blow softly. Incidently there is a little aluminium mute you can buy that fits in the sax. Does almost nothing for muting the sound but does knock off the top freque`s and gives the tone I like; but my friends say this is artificial. I know some people like the sharp "bark and bite" of their saxes but I`m aiming for a more classical mellow tone.
Bob I han`nt tried it yet but I will this morning.Soft emboucher and less MPC.
Lee, OK on the open thoat but can you give me a bit more info on the "air support". How can this effect the top frequencies? I like Bob`s analogy of turning down the stereo knob. Merry Xmas, Russ

tris · Dec 31, 2006

You need to control your sound with your diaphragm. After all, sound is produced by getting air through the sax. (think about blowing through the entire sax rather than just allowing the reed to become the point of focus.)

Think of your diaphragm as the bow and the reed at the strings.... (I hope this analogy helps your conceptualisation.)

I agree with Linky about the sub toning and breath support..

As a STRICT rule your embouchure should be as loose as possible at ALL times. This allows the reed to be as freely vibrating as possible. I found that I was increasing lip pressure when I should have been speeding up air flow. These days I have found a really amazing simple embouchure that Walter Beasely teaches. I barely alter it at all while playing.

He calls it the ?O? or ?Open?embouchure.

If you think of the lips as a circle
The bottom of the circle is the lower lip. This acts as a ?bed? for the reed to vibrate against.
The top of the circle constitutes the top teeth. These should be placed on the mouthpiece without exerting pressure.
The sides of your mouth are the sides of the circle and these offer the inward pressure and support the embouchure.

The take home message is that the top and bottom of the circle do not exert pressure. This leads to biting and a squashed tone.

All the support comes from the sides.

As you loose pressure on the mouthpiece you may go flat.. So take more in the mouth until you come into tune. Be very careful not to bite or pinch in the upper registers or you will be playing way sharp!!!

I have only been playing the sax of 8 months and I am teaching myself and I have found this to be the most useful information I have come across. I was amazed at how uniform my tone became across all the registers, still need more training to build stamina but wow.. my socks were blown off. (PS I played guitar for 18 years previously.)

At first you want to develop the most open sound possible and then reign it in as you learn control. It is easy to make small from big but the opposite is not true.

Linky Lee · Dec 31, 2006

Yeah really good advice. The tone is created by the resonance of your cavities and all sorts of other things inside your body.

If you have an 'open throat' and a nice wide loose embouchure you will have maximised the size of all your natural cavities etc. allowing for a big full resonant sound which is what creates a full warm tone.

Then to apply this to subtone you can either blow very softly like playing under PPP or you can take less of the mouthpiece into the mouth and play like a P or PP volume.
Once you get used to doing this you will find that you can get the subtone sound at louder volumes going up to about F probably. After that the reed won't be able to cope and you'll have to use a tighter embouchure with a richer tone to play louder.