Sub Tones - What a revelation

[sharon]

I was just browsing the main site and came across the subtones section. I've never really looked at this before and listened to the sample tune. I thought - That's it that's the sound I'm after! I'd love to be able to play like this but is it possible on an alto :S .

I'm used to my alto now and really love it's (dare I say) versality but oooh I'd love to play those subtones.

Sharon

 

[Pete Thomas]

It is possible on alto.

Not as common as on tenor and one problem is that it's harder on alto to do it without going flat.

But listen to Johnny Hodges and Paul Desmond.

 

[spike]

On tenor i do it with wet lips, a slobbery reed and a lot of breath, it's more difficult on alto because you need to be able to stay in tune.
Like Pete says: listen and get the sound in your head!
Stand in a corner and keep striving to reach it - it will come.
I've been little jack horner blowing his horn in a corner for many years.
Eureka. it works.

 

[Bobby G]

Pete Thomas wrote:
It is possible on alto.

Not as common as on tenor and one problem is that it's harder on alto to do it without going flat.

But listen to Johnny Hodges and Paul Desmond.

....and Bob Green! I do quite a bit of subtoning on alto, it has its own special quality. Maybe not quite as mellifluous as on a tenor as you can't go as low, but still a very lovely sound.

Am I right in thinking it's generally easier to produce subtone on a wider tip opening?

 

[john_laughter]

Sharon, here is some additional info which might help;

The term subtone refers to the technique of playing with soft tone on slow songs and is a technique used mainly in the lower register.


I do not know when this technique was developed but it was very popular in the big band era and remained popular in the 50s and 60s, especially on the slow Top 40 hits. And you will still hear it today in many forms of sax music.


A few suggestions to get started;

1. Assuming that all of the pads are leak proof, play a low G.

2. Bring the lower lip back over the bottom teeth so that more upper skin below the lip line area is pressing gently against the reed. Depending on the width and thickness of your lip, you may need more, or less, of the skin below the lip line against the reed. If you have a wide lower lip, this can work to your benefit. If you have a thin lower lip, more meat on the reed from the area below the lip line may be needed for a cushion.




6. Now G to F to E and so on.


8. Repeat this over and over. G to F to E to D to low C holding and maintaining a soft whisper tone.

9. Once you begin to get good control of it, you can adjust the volume, corners of the mouth, amount of lip in the mouth, amount of air/tone mix, etc. to develop your own subtone quality.

This is, by no means, the only way to approach the subtone but maybe it will help you get started. It is a technique that is well worth learning.

A link for the subtone;

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/saxophone-subtone.html

 

[rhinofeeder]

When articulating the note, try to think more "fu" than "tu" (I believe it says that on the main site, but it really helped me and is worth emphasizing!)

 

[sharon]

Thanks for all the info chaps I really appreciate it. Spike I usually play in a small corner :cry: That is the sound I try to have in my head when I play slower lower songs but I didn't know there was a technique to it I thought it was a case of mouthpiece set up or something.

John thanks for all the information I shall print it out and put it in with my excercises - can't wait to get started

Something new to learn all the time - great 🙂

Sharon

 

[Pete Thomas]

Thanks John - excellent stuff.

We had a discussion about this before I remember as you recommend taking more mouthpiece in and I recommend taking less. Although this could appear confusing, I think it may be all relative to how much mouthpiece one takes in to begin with.

 

[john_laughter]

Thanks Pete. I do recall and agree that it can be confusing. Probably has to do with how I was taught to approach it and may have something to do with having a thick or thin lower lip. The main thing is to try different ways and see what works best for the individual since we all differ in mouth structure.

My father played during the big band era and said that some of the sax players who had a thin lower lip would need to use more skin on the reed. To do that the lip would need to be further back over the bottom teeth and more m/p in the mouth. His lip was wider so he may not have had to use more.

Glad you brought up that point and I will add it to the above document.

 

[Linky Lee]

Thanks for asking the question Sharon. I've never seen the subtone method explained quite so clearly before.

I've mulled around with it before and can sub-tone but not as well as I'd like. I'm going to get practising thinking about these points now and hopefully I'll start improving!

 

[sharon]

Well had a little go using John's instructions and Pete's excercise in the subtones section. Very spitty at first but I could hear the difference in sound. The notes sounded rounder and softer although they were a bit up and down as you'd expect. All in all rather pleased with the result 🙂

I shall keep at it as it's a style I'd really like to use for some of the slower tunes. Thanks for all the info.

Sharon

 

[phil_edwards]

It's a style I love, but then again, when Johnny Hodges, Paul Desmond and Stan Getz are mentioned, it's going to be good!

regards, Phil