Teaching Student choosing the teacher’s method

[Colin the Bear]

A teacher is a guide. They know the shortest routes, the dead ends and where the bear traps are.
The rest is up to you.

There's playing and study. Teacher time is study time. Go play on your own time.

It's complicated for a person new to playing music, to pick up a demanding instrument like a single reed horn.

Mastering the reed while your brain is distracted by fingers, mouth and eyes is demanding.

The way to a successful journey is to follow the path the guide lays out for you.

This being the musings of a player who had a handful of piano lessons, fewer clarinet lessons, a Bert Weedon play in a day book and a 30 day foundation course.

Oh...and the distilled wisdom of this place for a dozen or so years. BotM. SotM. Have you considered doing this or that. Best learning tool ever. 😎

 

[Pete Thomas]

But if Pete Thomas were to move in next door and be available whenever I had a question or needed a bit of guidance, I'd willing seek out a teacher......

And I’d be happy to recommend one.

 

[mizmar]

This would be the educational model that Jean-Jacque Rousseau proposed

Yeah

Rousseau: "so, you want to play saxophone (which hasn't been in invented yet)? Ok. Here's some copper ore and some tin... Let's see what tunes you can naturally play..."

 

[eb424]

^^^
... but only one way of spelling 'than'.

With apologies single quotation marks correct..Never taught that at school

 

[Targa]

With apologies single quotation marks correct..Never taught that at school

A bad pupil always blames his teacher.
Which for me is almost relevant to the thread.

 

[Bisaxual]

With apologies single quotation marks correct..Never taught that at school

Could of just used [sic], since we’re on about pedantry….

 

[stitch]

Could of

Irony or sarcasm? It's so hard to tell!

😀

 

[eb424]

Why does this place always go like this. Attempted humour at others expence..not sure if its a sax forum or an English language forum at times. Sorry missed the apostrophy...

 

[eb424]

A bad pupil always blames his teacher.
Which for me is almost relevant to the thread.

Hmm but sometimes it is the teacher.

 

[Bisaxual]

Mizmar, maybe if Rousseau had sent his student out on such a mission, the saxophone would have been invented a century sooner! Anyway, since Pete has gracefully sidestepped my offer to be his student whenever it suits me...., I'll concede that I too had instruction in piano and a brass instrument before I decided to start learning guitar on my own as a teenager. Since I retired, I've taken up a couple of other stringed instruments, so the basic mechanics of music are not totally unfamiliar to me. Music theory and jazz both fascinate and confuse me, but if I could convince Pete to move in next door, it would be for help with techniques specific to sax mechanics. To attempt to learn the concepts of music AND of the saxophone simultaneously at this stage of my life would be laughable! Speaking of laughter: Stitch -- "Irony or sarcasm? It's so hard to tell!" but MY comment was intended merely to play with the pedantry of language. It was not designed to be at anyone's expense. Apologies if anyone felt it was.

 

[stitch]

Stitch -- "Irony or sarcasm? It's so hard to tell!" but MY comment was intended merely to play with the pedantry of language. It was not designed to be at anyone's expense. Apologies if anyone felt it was.

No apology needed as far as I'm concerned; playing with the pedantry of language is fine way to pass the time!

 

[eb424]

If you could read the dots - including rhythm - competently, a couple of pages of score would suffice. No need for half a dozen.

How exactly does that work? I realise that there's coda but even with this "Piano Man" score is 12 pages..People seem quick enough to slate the method but dont seem to understand that you have to be able to read music notation to do it..I also choose to transpose rather than let "music notes" do it as it's more practice at reading.

TBF notes are only words..if you can break down the pronunciation youd have a rough idea. Just for fun the first line is

" It's nine o'clock on a Saturday" ..I'd assume

It's nine O' clock
Crotchet quaver crotchet quavercrotchet

On a Saturday
Crothet quaver triplet

Just a bit of fun..

 

[eb424]

But ... it's not impractical: most songs repeat sections, so no need for multiple pages.

I'd like to see it shame you don't have the score...you'd see what I mean..Heck I'll even treat you to it if you will give an honest opinion on trying to play my version with K.V. baking track, on 3 pages soon to be broken down or from the score at 12 pages..

 

[thomsax]

That is terrible if he was supposed to be teaching rock and roll saxophone.

It was not hat bad. I learned that we need alternative teaching and more niched saxophone "schools". I was 18 when this happened. Money was tight back then. If I had some money over I spent them on reeds, mouthpieces, records .... and 2 x 1 hour "Rock & Roll Saxophone" lesson.

 

[eb424]

How exactly does that work? I realise that there's coda but even with this "Piano Man" score is 12 pages..People seem quick enough to slate the method but dont seem to understand that you have to be able to read music notation to do it..I also choose to transpose rather than let "music notes" do it as it's more practice at reading.

TBF notes are only words..if you can break down the pronunciation youd have a rough idea. Just for fun the first line is

" It's nine o'clock on a Saturday" ..I'd assume

It's nine O' clock
Crotchet quaver crotchet quavercrotchet

On a Saturday
Crothet quaver triplet

Just a bit of fun..

Darn just checked right equation wrong notes lol..Minim and crotchet rather than crotchet and quaver same value half duration just wrong duration..lol

 

[eb424]

It was not hat bad. I learned that we need alternative teaching and more niched saxophone "schools". I was 18 when this happened. Money was tight back then. If I had some money over I spent them on reeds, mouthpieces, records .... and 2 x 1 hour "Rock & Roll Saxophone" lesson.

I was going for brasses and beer...lol..wow @thomsax some career, think I know which of us made the right choice..I completely agree that an 'Alternative' ( correct usage @stitch ? Lol) method would bring in more saxophonists.. For clarity I am not saying that learning the 'correct' method isn't the best way forward but it 'excludes' people who can't do it that way for whatever reason, capacity, time, cost etc..Why should they miss out..Mark Archer found a niche in the market with his book 'Blowout sax' A revolutionary approach to playing the Saxophone. It's so 'inclusive' to those who can't read yet scorned on..

 

[eb424]

No apology needed as far as I'm concerned; playing with the pedantry of language is fine way to pass the time!

Is it tho..? Thats what I meant with the above comment ' Why does this place always go like this' Not so easy typing on a phone I just don't get the humour of missing an 'n' off of than..but hay ho each to their own humour I guess; just thought it was a sax forum..think it's me tbf just not understanding so I may have overreacted..

 

[thomsax]

I was going for brasses and beer...lol..wow @thomsax some career, think I know which of us made the right choice..I completely agree that an 'Alternative' ( correct usage @stitch ? Lol) method would bring in more saxophonists.. For clarity I am not saying that learning the 'correct' method isn't the best way forward but it 'excludes' people who can't do it that way for whatever reason, capacity, time, cost etc..Why should they miss out..Mark Archer found a niche in the market with his book 'Blowout sax' A revolutionary approach to playing the Saxophone. It's so 'inclusive' to those who can't read yet scorned on..

My goal as a sax player was to be able to join a Rock & Roll-, Blues band. I compensated lack of reading skills and music theory with enthusiasm, power, energy ..... but the hard core sax players were hard to please.

I began to arrange Rock & Roll saxophone workshops, ensemble, two days camps ..... with Rock & Roll Saxophone specialists as "teachers, leaders, conductors" . Instead of complaining I tried to make a change. I sawed 8-10 sax players from drowning in the jazz swamp😉

 

[Pete Thomas]

I am not saying that learning the 'correct' method isn't the best way forward

Nobody has mentioned anything being the correct method. I would not use that word in regard to teaching/learning of anything except classical music I suppose.

The word correct implies objectivity and that would mean there is some authoritative source that says what is correct. In some cases it is possible to use it, e.g. the correct t way to finger A on the saxophone . But I don't think in the broader context of learning to play a tune.

The closest I would find in regard to pop music, if you base it on what most pop musicians do, might be to say the correct method is to learn a tune by listening and memorising it.

For about 20 years of my career I was a pop and rock session musician. It was extremely rare to turn up to a recording session and have to read any music. So the ability to listen and then play seemed to be correct. And of course the same would apply to performing (including in a care home)

can you learn this ability? Indeed you can and some of the things that will get you started on that road involve ear training, and music theory. Learning to read music can also help because for me visualising a clef means I can visualise the contour of a melody and the rhythms involved. Even if you don't need to sight read it can be a short cut to learning.

but it 'excludes' people who can't do it that way for whatever reason, capacity, time, cost etc

I'm not sure what you mean by capacity, time and cost. To learn an instrument like saxophone needs time and cost whatever.

If people are excluded it could be due to cost, lack of time, physical or mental disabilities and that is sad - however those things apply to any method of teaching/learning (with exceptions such as sight or hearing disabilities)

 

[Woodpad]

I was going for brasses and beer...lol..wow @thomsax some career, think I know which of us made the right choice..I completely agree that an 'Alternative' ( correct usage @stitch ? Lol) method would bring in more saxophonists.. For clarity I am not saying that learning the 'correct' method isn't the best way forward but it 'excludes' people who can't do it that way for whatever reason, capacity, time, cost etc..Why should they miss out..Mark Archer found a niche in the market with his book 'Blowout sax' A revolutionary approach to playing the Saxophone. It's so 'inclusive' to those who can't read yet scorned on..

Reminds me of a workshop with a conservatorium harmony teacher 30 years ago. He asked me for my first thought on Blues. Beer wasn't the good answer and he never made eye contact with me again.

Such teachers should come with a manual.