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Stuck low Eb/D# and C rollers on Mark VI alto

saxmad

Well-Known Member
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103
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North Norfolk
The rod screws are stuck inside the rollers and I can't remove them. Trying to unscrew them is impossible despite soaking each of the keys in penetrating fluid, or using a hot soldering iron on the tip of the rod screw, or using a shim to stop the screws rotation and ease the roller.

The only solution I can come up with would be to saw through the roller, and its screw, in half using a jewellers saw and attempt (not sure how I'd do this bit) to remove enough of the roller to use grips to remove/unthread one part of the rod screw, and then the other.

Finally I'd need to find new rollers and rod screws to make good the alto. Any suggestions or alternatives?
 
The techniques I was taught to loosen or remove frozen parts are: 1) penetrating fluid 2) heat 3) tapping. Is the roller stuck on the rod itself, but the rod will unscrew a bit from the threaded side? Or is the rod also stuck in the threaded portion of the key?

I'm not sure if it is available where you live, but I find PB Blaster to be effective most of the time.
 
The techniques I was taught to loosen or remove frozen parts are: 1) penetrating fluid 2) heat 3) tapping. Is the roller stuck on the rod itself, but the rod will unscrew a bit from the threaded side? Or is the rod also stuck in the threaded portion of the key?

I'm not sure if it is available where you live, but I find PB Blaster to be effective most of the time.


On both keys the rollers are stuck onto the rods and they do both unscrew a little. On one of the keys the rod emerges slightly but one side of the rod (that you insert a screw driver into) has broken off, making it nearly impossible to get a grip of.
We don't have PB Blaster in the UK although I have used various other penetrating oils without success.
 
Everything @jbtsax has stated is the typical approach, and with patience it works more times than not.
If it is that bad ....you can take the horn to a tech and have them give it a whirl. Indeed the problem with the heating aspect is....you don't wanna burn the rollers, so a torch is out and probably the soldering iron wasn't a bad idea.

But if you have soaked in penetrating oil (and personally I have found Liquid Wrench to be as effective as PBlaster....although WD40 not so much) and now the head slot on one has busted off....you are very near a Rubicon.

In cases where the whole affair just gets too stubborn, indeed I just cut or burn the rollers off to get to the pivot rods, and usually I can unscrew the rods using small pliers and salvage them (after more de-rusting with sandpaper or such).

In a worst case scenario where the rods get mangled in the process, a well-tooled woodwind tech can make new rods for you.

There are sources for new roller material. Perhaps @Stephen Howard can chime in and suggest a source in the UK ?
 
Disclaimer - I am not a tech, though I did meet one once...

Assuming you're resigned to destroying the rollers and rods, might it be possible to first use a Dremel or similar to grind enough roller away that you can pop the remains off the rod; then grind opposing flats on the rod so you can grip it to unscrew it? Maybe after more heat, oil, hot oil, oily heat and so forth... perhaps a few cycles from hot to cold to loosen the rod by thermal shock, too.
 
Many thanks for all the replies so far - I have managed to locate replacement rollers and shall, hopefully tomorrow, commence by cutting away at the rollers in order to remove the screw rods.
I will report back on my progress.
 
Success!!
Job completed - I used the Dremel to slowly cut away the rollers without damaging the rod screws and once the rollers were completely off I used grips to unscrew the rod screws.
I managed to find a replacement for the rod screw with the missing screw slot and using a jewellers saw cut the replacement screw to size and cut a new screw slot.
The replacement rollers finished the job off well and all is good.
 
Excellent news! Good to hear how you found a solution - so many don't report back, so we never know the story ends...
 
Many thanks for all the replies so far - I have managed to locate replacement rollers
For posterity sake, can you post the supplier of rollers here on this thread ? It would be useful info for this community.

Well done !.... yes that is basically the 'nuclear option' and it sounds like it went off without a hitch.
 
I bought two 18.3mm rollers from Dakes Music here in the UK. They were each about 4mm too long and I ground each end equally in order to fit. I'm sure in the US someone like Ferrees would be able to supply similar.
 
Thanks for the info on Dawkes. Have just started using them for bits and pieces. Good to know they have a wider range than I realised.
 
Straight cylindrical rollers are quite easy to find. The ones that are more difficult are the "barrel shaped" ones. The only "current model" Selmer Paris ones I have found in the U.S. are from Allied and they cost $1.40 to $4.05 depending upon the length. I really like that Dawkes shows pictures of the parts they sell. This is really great news for those in the UK Music News
 
The cylindrical rollers I used were 18.3mm in length each and I shortened them to fit the gaps. They were 50p (50 pence) each!!
 
Sorry - forgot to say they were the barrel shaped rollers.
 
Similar issue with the SML "Dore" alto I just bought (see: Saxophones - Dore Alto... looks SML, but which Rev? - CafeSaxophone Forum ). Rollers seized on the rods (rod unscrews a little, which is good). One roller split...

20240207_181607.jpg


Tried PlusGas overnight. No good. Tried soaking in white vinegar (to dissolve rust... not). All this did was bloat the, presumably, 1949 bakelite rollers. Oh, and soften them!?

So, out with the rotary burr to cut a 'flat' on four sides of the roller...

20240208_152937.jpg


5mm spanner on the roller flats to spin it off the rod. As the slot had lost one 'ear' I used mole grips when it had rotated sufficiently to grab...

20240208_154257.jpg


Wiggled rod out...

20240208_154615.jpg


More coming...
 
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I'd noticed a similarity with a YTS-62 roller (I have a 62 tenor), shape wise, but the 62 rod (left has a different thread) so I have to save the original rod screw...

20240208_155738.jpg


Cut a new slot in the rod end with my jewellers saw...

20240208_164412.jpg


The split roller just crumbled off its rod when mole gripped...

20240208_164914.jpg


Here's the old roller's profile set against the Yamaha's barrel shaped key recess. Looks a good profile match, though the 62 roller is 0.2mm slimmer as its widest point. It also has a 0.05mm larger bore. It feels OK on the SML's roller rod and any looseness can be taken up with an oil/grease mixture. The Yamaha rollers need to be cut down in length by 1.5mm but this will end up with a similar end diameter to the old rollers so that's fine...

20240208_170754.jpg


two 62 tenor rollers ordered from Dawkes so as not to mess with the current two off my 62 in case the new ones are slightly different.

So far, so good... :)
 
Yamaha rollers here now. Shortened, fitted, left of pic (YTS-62 keys on the right)...

20240211_115548.jpg


Some sewing machine grease pushed into each roller and they feel just right.
 

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