Theory & Impro Standard Song Forms

[turf3]

The discussion about "Green Onions" leads me to pose this question:

In this day and age, what are the standard song forms every performing musician ought to have immediately available? The first two I thought of were of course 12 bar blues and rhythm changes, but I'm sure there are others nowadays, since those two have been the underpinning for jam sessions for something like 85 years now.

 

[Pete Effamy]

The discussion about "Green Onions" leads me to pose this question:

In this day and age, what are the standard song forms every performing musician ought to have immediately available? The first two I thought of were of course 12 bar blues and rhythm changes, but I'm sure there are others nowadays, since those two have been the underpinning for jam sessions for something like 85 years now.

As a jazz player anyone will come unstuck if they are unfamiliar with Rhythm Changes. There you are happily blowing along in the home key for the A section and all of a sudden nearly every note is wrong.

Blues is far more “now” because it fits Rock / Rock n Roll (yes, these are “old” too in many respects). Modern music / pop music doesn’t have much in the way of harmony so the functional harmony of Rhythm Changes is too much in this case. A good knowledge of major keys is probably far more of use.

If playing jazz from the 70’s / 80’s then I’d say that the cycle of 5ths altered dominants would prepare you for the “sound” better. Again, an altered Blues is far more likely than Rhythm Changes, although command of the B section (as stated above - cycle 5ths) is useful for almost anything.

Music has moved far apart and in all directions. Back in the day, a jazz player would still be playing over familiar progressions if turning up on a “pop” gig, but I’m not sure that’s true now if being asked to play a session for Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish.

 

[Colin the Bear]

The stuff I play there's a Bill Bailey format.

 

[progger]

Good topic! I assume we're talking mainly about jazz-oriented performers, yeah? Probably don't need to be ice-cold on rhythm changes if you're mainly playing in wind ensembles or death metal bands. But if we're talking folks who want to be hanging in reasonably professional-level jazz (and jazz-adjacent) circles, jams, gigs, etc, in a reasonably major city, I think these forms should all be familiar:

Blues (major, minor, Bird, all the variations under the sun, in all the keys)
Rhythm (in all the keys)
Cherokee
Indiana (Donna Lee, etc)
Whispering (Groovin High, etc)
What Is This Thing Called Love (Hot House, etc)
Doxy (or some kind of 16-bar blues-ish form)

Along with these specific forms, a general understanding of A-A-B-A and A-B-A-C should be comfortable. Then we get into the longer forms like Love For Sale, Invitation, and Nica's Dream, all of which I'd consider important.

I really enjoy a lot of the more modern tunes with shorter forms by the likes of Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, and Chick Corea... things like Nefertiti, Rio, Serenity, Humpty Dumpty, etc, and of course the "challenge mode" tunes like Giant Steps, Countdown, and Inner Urge (to a degree). But I'd prioritize the more old-school stuff above over any of that, at least for a while, if I'm working with students on all this.

 

[Canuck_alto]

I want to play sax in a death metal band.

 

[progger]

I want to play sax in a death metal band.

This is the closest my band has ever come to that.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Closest I've got to death metal

 

[mizmar]

How about Chord Loops?

View: https://youtu.be/CyWpCVVUpO8


(Health warning. The above YouTuber, 12Tone, is a bit hard to listen to and harder to watch...)

View: https://youtu.be/_5SI8Zhr6E0

 

[MikeMorrell]

I'm just an amateur (tenor) player. I've played in various Big Bands and numerous 'jazz improvisation workshops. For the past year, I've also played in an amateur Blues/Rock/Pop band.

Yes, there are 'chord patterns' that often crop up, such as maj./min. blues scales. And also the 'just look on the bright side of things' chord pattern. So it's worth learning to across these chord patterns in 'common keys'

But there are very many other chord patterns that vary from these. Either structurally (late Beatles), on choruses or on songs that transition up (and maybe back down),

'Rhythm' is IMHO also 'transitional' throughout any song.

Bottom line: my humble advice is to avoid looking for 'formula's' or 'shortcuts'; just enjoy playing and I'm sure that - through learning and experience - you will become much more able, confident to play sax with much more enjoyment,

Best wishes,

Mike

 

[Colin the Bear]

It's very useful, when playing or sitting in with a band, without music, when a song you're not familiar with is called, and some one says it's a 12bar in F or it's a Bill Bailey in Bb.

The introduction "Did you hear about the accident on the bridge in Indiana?
There is no bridge in Indian. It's two 16's." let's you know the format.

Some of us are busking the whole set.

 

[progger]

Forgive this tangent, but I do a lot of writing and arranging so the concept of "form" is something about which I get reasonably geeky.

Over the past couple years I read Schoenberg's "Fundamentals of Musical Composition" a couple times, and while it's probably not a book for beginners, I think it's a brilliant book for anyone involved in writing western music, even jazz (etc). For me, it simplified and clarified the central roles of "ternary" and "rondeau" concepts that are just as relevant to jazz tunes and pop songs as they are to a Beethoven sonata.

Book recommendation over, carry on as you were.