Playing the saxophone Stage Fright

[cappers]

- the growing realisation that 'musicians are their own worst critics'; we can feel truly awful about wrong notes, missed timing, skipped sections, etc. While our 'audience' of non-musicians barely notices. They just hear what we play, not what we intended to play.

True words Mike

After today's practise MrsC said that I sounded good whereas I heard every fluffed note, poor intonation and timing mistake. The more I practise and play, the 'better' I sound to others but 'worse' to me as I now can tell when it's off even when they can't Conscious incompetence rather than unconscious incompetence!

Plus the gigs she does are normally about two hours so you need to know an awful lot of tunes,

Our gigs are usually booked for two hours, two 45-50 minute sets and an interval. The first time I wondered how we were going to get through all 18 songs on the list. Now I'm amazed how quickly it flies!

It depends on the band and the MD and how 'strict' they are. Mine told me initially to play what I could, even if it was one or two notes per bar, just be in tune and on time!

You are in Suffolk so there might be something near you?

UK Amateur Orchestras - East Anglia

 

[Colin the Bear]

When playing, you are consciously comparing what you intend to play against what you played. Some one listening just hears what you played.

This is why recording yourself is a useful tool. It's often quite surprising, when coming across an old recording, to find that you aren't as awful as you thought you were. 😉

 

[Grumps]

Having many bandmates around could be a factor. Leaders with experience and confidence supporting those of lesser exposure.

No doubt it was good for supporting players' nerves, but some players are going to be choke-artists no matter what. What I always implored upon the leader was making sure not to put people in position to fail. The girls were always great. Stayed in their lane, so to speak. Some of the older guys? Not so much. You have to remember that I came from my father's band filled with Navy pros and I was low man on the totem pole. When I found the brass band, they were basically playing for beers in the street. Took another year or two before they were ready for a proper stage show. Not that I'm any great shake, but relatively speaking, with this group I'd tend to take the first solo when we opened things up to set the table for the others. That seemed to help them with their nerves when following.

 

[Grumps]

Wait a minute... has anyone suggested alcohol yet?

 

[turf3]

What are you scared of? Nobody will get hurt and nobody will die.

Live music is an art form where the evidence is gone forever. ...

As a guitarist I used to work with would say after a trainwreck:

"And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, was LIVE MUSIC!"

 

[Pete Thomas]

The more I practise and play, the 'better' I sound to others but 'worse' to me as I now can tell when it's off even when they can't

This is exactly what happens. My advice now would be to take holiday from the saxophone for a week or two. It sounds counter intuitive but it counteracts this weird and known effect of thinking it is sounding worse as you improve.

 

[cappers]

This is exactly what happens. My advice now would be to take holiday from the saxophone for a week or two. It sounds counter intuitive but it counteracts this weird and known effect of thinking it is sounding worse as you improve.

Thanks Pete. I do find that a day or two off helps consolidate things but two weeks
I might lose my embouchure without a daily workout! Only just beginning to sound OK-ish at last, don't want to lose momentum. But I take your advice onboard.

 

[Targa]

Thanks Pete. I do find that a day or two off helps consolidate things but two weeks
I might lose my embouchure without a daily workout!

You could simply suck your thumb for an hour or so.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I might lose my embouchure without a daily workout!

No, you really won’t. Not after this amount of time playing

 

[not a perfect sax player]

Great tips, Vern (@not a perfect sax player). I just want to wish you well!

As @PigSquealer says, everyone goes through this to some extent. So it's not just 'your' problem!

I'm probably known for long, rambling posts on the café but this one (too) is with my best intentions.

Lots of things have already been mentioned that you can do to reduce or mitigate 'performance anxiety'. As far as I know, anxiety has interrelated mental and a physical effects. So 'anxious thoughts' tend to be reflected in increased muscle tension and shallow breathing: the old 'fight/flight/freeze' responses to a perceived risk or danger. So a short physical 'warm-up' (legs, arms, fingers) can help to reduce muscle tension and deepen your breathing. And can also work through to a 'calmer' mental state.
As you might expect, there are very many internet articles and video's on 'performance anxiety' (a.k.a. 'stage fright'). Violinist Amy Littlewood's 'Performance Anxiety Coaching Guidance' on the Musician's Union website is probably the best I've come across. Especially her sub-sections on 'Understanding how Anxiety Manifests' and 'Root Causes'.

Most 'popular' internet articles and video's focus on 'how to overcome' or at least mitigate performance anxiety. Amy's article invites readers to at least reflect on what some 'Root Causes' might be. Her article - I assume - is aimed at professional musicians. But I think that the article is also helpful for amateur musicians.

Just on a personal note, 3 things that have helped me (as an amateur) over the years are:
- my 2nd sax tutor's advice that 'you're unlikely to perform in public at your best performance level in practice; so if you're mentally prepared to play at about 80% of your best 'practice performance' level, you won't be disappointed and you won't be so easily thrown off course by a few mistakes'.
- the growing realisation that 'musicians are their own worst critics'; we can feel truly awful about wrong/fluffed notes, missed timing, skipped sections, etc. While our 'audience' of non-musicians barely notices. They just hear what we play, not what we intended to play.
- my own realisation (in bands) that 'hey, we're all amateurs here and we're all playing the best we can on the day'. Not perfect and with a couple of mistakes but hopefully good enough to entertain you'.

For me, these points have - over the years - taken the pressure off my 'performance anxiety'. I prepare as best I can, 'loosen up' before gigs but I have no illusion that I'm always going to give my 'best performance'. If it happens on the day, I'm delighted. If it's (generally - or just barely) 'good enough' then I'm happy too.

If you only play solo (for family and friends or in a jam session), one tip that I learned from an informal workshop on 'public speaking' was to take the time to establish your 'personal presence' and make personal contact with your audience. Looking around, making eye contact, saying a couple of things like "I'm glad that you're here. I'm nervous about playing for you and I hope you'll forgive my occasional mistakes and give me some some tips for how I can improve".

What does this kind of dialogue mean? Nr. 1, it creates a personal 'bond' between (a vulnerable) you and your audience. So it greatly reduces the 'distance' between you and your audience. It creates a 'We' feeling in which the audience become 'supporters' wishing you to play well. And are also emotionally invested in your continued improvement.
In terms of 'anxiety', it becomes a much safer, less intimating space. Audience and band members are much more likely to offer supportive, encouraging comments that just 'criticism'.

Once again, I wish you well!

Mike

PS. I once took a 3 year part-time course in 'therapy'. Mainly for my own personal therapy but I did apply what I'd learned in 'business coaching'. My old course tutor and classmates would have asked more about your café name. In the sense that pretty much all café members are far from being 'perfect' sax players. So why did choose this one? Entirely up to you but perhaps a more 'positive' café name (learning..., etc.) would better reflect your sax status.

Hi Mike, thank you very much for your detailed reply I will certainly have a look at the link you have left. As to my cafe name I suppose it is because I'm very self critical and really struggle if things I do aren't perfect, hence a big problem for me is playing through a tune when I've played a wrong note and not stopping and starting again until I get it right.
Very slowly in forcing myself to carry on playing mainly because of all the grief I get off my tutor. I've already put into practice a couple of tips members have left me and I'm astonished how quickly I've been able to adjust to background noises, whereas before the slightest thing would break my concentration.
I really can't thank all of the members who have helped me with their ideas enough I can now see ways to overcome my nerves and progress with my playing.
Many thanks Vern.

 

[not a perfect sax player]

True words Mike

After today's practise MrsC said that I sounded good whereas I heard every fluffed note, poor intonation and timing mistake. The more I practise and play, the 'better' I sound to others but 'worse' to me as I now can tell when it's off even when they can't Conscious incompetence rather than unconscious incompetence!


Our gigs are usually booked for two hours, two 45-50 minute sets and an interval. The first time I wondered how we were going to get through all 18 songs on the list. Now I'm amazed how quickly it flies!

It depends on the band and the MD and how 'strict' they are. Mine told me initially to play what I could, even if it was one or two notes per bar, just be in tune and on time!

You are in Suffolk so there might be something near you?

UK Amateur Orchestras - East Anglia

Yes I'm going to check out which bands are closest to me, bite the bullet and give it a go. Where are your Orchestras based? Do you have any fairly close to Halesworth Suffolk.
Once again many thanks for your reply.
Cheers Vern.

 

[Zasterz]

Self-deprecation can be a successful strategy- see Rodney Dangerfield.

 

[skeller047]

Hey Vern, your choice of name fits every one of us here. This is the great, wonderful, maddening, frustrating thing about music - or any art form, really. There is ALWAYS something to work on, a refinement here, a new concept there, a completely different level of understanding in the next room.

Just make a little progress every day - or every week. Celebrate your successes, but don't stress too much over your failures, because brother there are failure potholes in the road you are on. You will find pieces of me in most of them...

There is a guitarist named Tomo Fujita, a professor at Berklee School of Music, and he has a YouTube channel. Worth a look for just all around great inspiration. He has a saying I really like.

Don't worry.
Don't compare.
Don't expect too fast.
Be kind to yourself.

Music expands our hearts and souls. It's hard work, but the effort is so worth it. It's just like being a human 🙂

 

[not a perfect sax player]

Hey Vern, your choice of name fits every one of us here. This is the great, wonderful, maddening, frustrating thing about music - or any art form, really. There is ALWAYS something to work on, a refinement here, a new concept there, a completely different level of understanding in the next room.

Just make a little progress every day - or every week. Celebrate your successes, but don't stress too much over your failures, because brother there are failure potholes in the road you are on. You will find pieces of me in most of them...

There is a guitarist named Tomo Fujita, a professor at Berklee School of Music, and he has a YouTube channel. Worth a look for just all around great inspiration. He has a saying I really like.

Don't worry.
Don't compare.
Don't expect too fast.
Be kind to yourself.

Music expands our hearts and souls. It's hard work, but the effort is so worth it. It's just like being a human 🙂

Yes I have to agree with all you have said, I strongly believe that anything in life that challenges you is worth doing. And nothing has ever challenged me as much as a Saxophone, and I just love it. The little wins you have when a piece comes together is soon replaced with something even harder to tackle. Brilliant!
Thanks for the link, I'll certainly have a look.
Cheers Vern.

 

[not a perfect sax player]

Self-deprecation can be a successful strategy- see Rodney Dangerfield.

I'll look him up.
Cheers Vern.

 

[GCinCT]

I've been following this thread, @not a perfect sax player, and I have another angle. I was a stand-up comic for 10 years. Talk about scary! Once you've done that, nothing else seems frightening. What helped me get through it was when I realized that no matter what happened, I could handle it.

Now, changing to music, I started filling in and playing in a college big band after playing for about a year. I felt like a fraud. But because of my background, I wasn't scared. I am much more confident now after 8 years of playing, but I accept the fact that I have never played through an entire gig without making a mistake. I accept that the mistakes will happen, but I know that I will not make the BIG mistake that brings the band to a screeching halt. Whatever happens, I can handle it.

I solo frequently. Sometimes my solos are not all that good. But I always get a polite smattering of applause. If I play something pretty good, bigger applause. I listen to the recording, note what sounded good, and learn from what didn't. You can do this. Take the advice all of these terrific saxophonists have given you, and run with it. You got this, Vern!

 

[Dr G]

I'm very self critical and really struggle if things I do aren't perfect, hence a big problem for me is playing through a tune when I've played a wrong note and not stopping and starting again until I get it right.

Let me share another perspective learned from playing in bands for half a century - time matters as much or more than nailing each note. If you aspire to play in a group, you need to learn to keep going even after you fluff a note. That one is gone. It matters more that you stay in the context of the tune, maintain flow, and nail the next phrase. If you cannot do that, then break down the bits that present a challenge and work them out. Better to play slow and accurately, rather than rush and develop a habit of feeling like you're always falling headlong. And you know what? You can play musically at any tempo.

 

[LostCircuits]

Time matters more than nailing each note. Both are important but especially from the outside perspective, I rather play with somebody who plays in time than someone who hits the right notes at the wrong time.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thinking about some of my life experiences. Clubs and activity groups helped me grow too.
Standing and presenting in front of a group.
Volunteered for several chairs. At monthly meetings. I had to stand and report monthly activities or findings to members.
All small stuff that helps.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Also, if you keep in time a wrong note from a part might still work with the harmony, but out of time is always very noticeable. And you lose your place if you don’t keep going too.