Playing the saxophone Stage Fright

[Jeanette]

Like I said, three different phenomena, two of which are simply different ways of being normal that are now ridiculed and treated as disorders by the chirpy loudmouth extroverts who run everything these days.

I think more and more introverts are becoming understood and valued especially in the workplace for their thoughtful contributions.

Jx

 

[Grumps]

I like those sink or swim moments that define us as players. The brass band I was in had a rather scatter-brained leader who was often fuzzy on details. We were going back to DC to take part in a Mardi Gras parade, but this time they asked if we could play a bit on the pier afterwards. That's how the leader put it, and as he couldn't make the gig, he sent in some of the B team which included two high school sophomore twin sisters; one on sousaphone, which is the backbone of a brass band. When it's a parade, everybody gets to come, not just the core players. So this gig was open to all. Fine and dandy.

We did the parade as usual, and then were told to play for two hours on the pier. No problem. We have that amount of material. But then came the reality of the gig:

Yeah. A thousand people. Easily. The shot above though, was near the end. It was light when we started. Without our leader the alto player and I took over and decided NO BREAK. We played for two hours straight. With the B team. There was a spot where the young sousaphone player panicked with an equipment problem and was beginning to lose it on stage. That might have wrecked everything, but her father was on trombone that day and he stepped in to fix things rather quickly and the breakdown was minor. Things those two kids will always remember though. And they played great. The band still has the gig five years later.

 

[PigSquealer]

I like those sink or swim moments that define us as players. The brass band I was in had a rather scatter-brained leader who was often fuzzy on details. We were going back to DC to take part in a Mardi Gras parade, but this time they asked if we could play a bit on the pier afterwards. That's how the leader put it, and as he couldn't make the gig, he sent in some of the B team which included two high school sophomore twin sisters; one on sousaphone, which is the backbone of a brass band. When it's a parade, everybody gets to come, not just the core players. So this gig was open to all. Fine and dandy.

We did the parade as usual, and then were told to play for two hours on the pier. No problem. We have that amount of material. But then came the reality of the gig:

View attachment 32507

Yeah. A thousand people. Easily. The shot above though, was near the end. It was light when we started. Without our leader the alto player and I took over and decided NO BREAK. We played for two hours straight. With the B team. There was a spot where the young sousaphone player panicked with an equipment problem and was beginning to lose it on stage. That might have wrecked everything, but her father was on trombone that day and he stepped in to fix things rather quickly and the breakdown was minor. Things those two kids will always remember though. And they played great. The band still has the gig five years later.

What an insane day ! A long one too. Do you think being a large group helps ? Having many bandmates around could be a factor. Leaders with experience and confidence supporting those of lesser exposure.

I have one memory of stomach butterflies. 1992, Rolling out on a racetrack for a national competition. Most tracks were small. Seating sub 3k. Rolling out with 10k+ spectators looking at you is very different. Focusing on competition while rolling to the starting gate made the difference. The crowd became a huge blurr. Friends said they were cheering for us leaning over the walls. I don’t recall seeing anyone.

 

[Targa]

To help your focus, try practicing with distractions. Put talk radio or the TV on. Playing your part while a recording plays a different tune takes focus. Once fully focused, there is no audience.

I wouldn't go busking if you can't play well.

Pity so many buskers do.
There’s one local one that always pretends he’s just warming up, plays a few notes, stops looks at the sax, fiddles with reed, few more notes etc. and fools still give him money.

 

[Zasterz]

I’ve played solo on a stage in front of 500-1000 people before yet I would be uncomfortable (nervous?) busking. I think that’s for a specific kind of person, like the kind of person who doesn’t mind cold-calling, knocking on strangers’ doors, etc.

Imo the best way to overcome nervousness is to find some kind of group, as several have pointed out: most ideal is a group class if there’s anything like that where you live. Then everyone is a student and trying to learn and it’s extremely forgiving by design. But community orchestra is great too.

 

[Dr G]

I wouldn't go busking if you can't play well.

Pity so many buskers do.
There’s one local one that always pretends he’s just warming up, plays a few notes, stops looks at the sax, fiddles with reed, few more notes etc. and fools still give him money.

I agree with the "Don't busk if you can't play well", but there is a middle path. Consider playing outdoors and off the beaten path, and don't put out a tip jar. Your horn will sound different outdoors so get used to it. If someone compliments your playing, say "Thank you" or give a nod of appreciation. Think of your playing as a gift instead of a grift.

 

[Ivan]

the trouble I have is playing in front of other people, where I just seem to panic and choke.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Vern.

That's a normal response to performance pressure

I can't describe how much pleasure I get from playing my sax

You love playing...

Your audience will feel it too

Like @Colin the Bear sez... What is the worse that could happen???(?)((??)) (((???))) Being anxious before a performance is... what happens

...someone else suggested looking into a mirror while playing

That's a suggestion that could work

I used a small mirror to pose exam questions to 'a face' in preparation for professional vivas... It helped to mitigate The Fear of getting it wrong in front of others

Also... Playing to a (full length) mirror will show you just how cool you look ... Do not underestimate how cool you look to your audience

Also... You'd be surprised at how forgiving your live audience can be re: what notes you play and in what order... Whether you can knock out something recognisable (if you've told them the name of the song), or unrecognisable because you've written the tune, or you're making it up on the spot

Also, whatever kit you've got is more than adequate to please your audience. Don't regret your choice of saxophone size, shape, or brand; nor your mouthpiece dimensions (internal or out), mouthpiece material and rail narrowness; the reed brand and strength, reed material, ligature, sling, sax case, Bogen balls, upgraded neck, tenon redesign, Patagonian squirrel leather pads, throttled walrus cork grease...

They are simply props to your performance which, let's face it, cannot fail because you are the dude(tte) playing the coolest instrument in the room

 

[Ivan]

I agree with the "Don't busk if you can't play well", but there is a middle path. Consider playing outdoors and off the beaten path, and don't put out a tip jar. Your horn will sound different outdoors so get used to it. If someone compliments your playing, say "Thank you" or give a nod of appreciation. Think of your playing as a gift instead of a grift.

A suggestion worth seconding...

Seconded

 

[not a perfect sax player]

That's a normal response to performance pressure


You love playing...

Your audience will feel it too

Like @Colin the Bear sez... What is the worse that could happen???(?)((??)) (((???))) Being anxious before a performance is... what happens


That's a suggestion that could work

I used a small mirror to pose exam questions to 'a face' in preparation for professional vivas... It helped to mitigate The Fear of getting it wrong in front of others

Also... Playing to a (full length) mirror will show you just how cool you look ... Do not underestimate how cool you look to your audience

Also... You'd be surprised at how forgiving your live audience can be re: what notes you play and in what order... Whether you can knock out something recognisable (if you've told them the name of the song), or unrecognisable because you've written the tune, or you're making it up on the spot

Also, whatever kit you've got is more than adequate to please your audience. Don't regret your choice of saxophone size, shape, or brand; nor your mouthpiece dimensions (internal or out), mouthpiece material and rail narrowness; the reed brand and strength, reed material, ligature, sling, sax case, Bogen balls, upgraded neck, tenon redesign, Patagonian squirrel leather pads, throttled walrus cork grease...

They are simply props to your performance which, let's face it, cannot fail because you are the dude(tte) playing the coolest instrument in the room

Yes I think you've just pointed out what I'm missing, the throttled Walrus cork grease, already ordered it on Amazon, got a good deal on 10! Thanks for your comments all duly noted.
Cheers Vern.

 

[Pete Effamy]

once or twice I’ve had stomach cramps. Nerves. Nothing to do with big audiences - I’ve done live TV to 10 million and a weekly live-to-air radio show to 3 million which was also recorded for TV broadcasts throughout the following week.

Festival gigs maybe 30,000.

For me, it’s on the odd occasion when I feel unprepared or maybe, as a dep / sub I have no real idea on when to go out front for my solos etc.

Preparation for me.

 

[not a perfect sax player]

I agree with the "Don't busk if you can't play well", but there is a middle path. Consider playing outdoors and off the beaten path, and don't put out a tip jar. Your horn will sound different outdoors so get used to it. If someone compliments your playing, say "Thank you" or give a nod of appreciation. Think of your playing as a gift instead of a grift.

hi Dr G, Thanks for your suggestions and you are very right about getting used to playing in different places, the difference in acoustics is remarkable.
I normally practice in a carpeted bedroom but recently played in a room with a hard floor and the difference was incredible.
Since I've been learning to play, I've come to realise just how much there is to learn and have so much admiration for musicians of any instrument for the dedication they have put in.
Cheers Vern.

 

[not a perfect sax player]

I’ve played solo on a stage in front of 500-1000 people before yet I would be uncomfortable (nervous?) busking. I think that’s for a specific kind of person, like the kind of person who doesn’t mind cold-calling, knocking on strangers’ doors, etc.

Imo the best way to overcome nervousness is to find some kind of group, as several have pointed out: most ideal is a group class if there’s anything like that where you live. Then everyone is a student and trying to learn and it’s extremely forgiving by design. But community orchestra is great too.

Thanks yes this seems like a good route to go down, just to get confidence playing with other people.
Cheers Vern.

 

[cappers]

@not a perfect sax player Hi Vern,

I've only been learning to play for a year now so you have much more experience and skill than I. However, after about six months my teacher suggested that I find others to play with and luckily there was a local amateur swing jazz band near me that welcomed people at any stage.

The thought of playing with others and in front of others scared me and for the first few sessions I just stood at the back trying not to make a fool of myself. Over time my confidence improved, as well as my music reading and general playing skills; I am even doing simple solos and improvisation. Most importantly I love it, best thing I've done, so much fun!

I am naturally introverted, a bit shy but affable, not seeking the limelight. I do have years of lecturing and public speaking experience and treat playing the same way. Deep breath and just do it. Even if you make a mistake, the audience (at least the type of audience we play for in pubs or bistros ) is unlikely to notice or care as long as you sound decent and have some rhythm. They aren't there to hear blistering bebop and technical wizardry, just simple recognisable tunes they can nod along to.

I remember one gig where we lost it near the end of a tune but our MD and band leader picked up the rhythm on his guitar and we got back on track and finished it ok to applause and some cheers for doing so!

I started a thread about joining a band, it goes on a bit now but might be helpful Saxophone beginners - Come on now, join the band.... You can tell from my playing that I'm a rank amateur but I'm having fun and haven't been asked to leave or step back!

Good luck. I'd say go for it, no-one is going to get hurt and the worst case scenario is one's ego might get a pasting!

 

[Tenor Viol]

An update on my post from about 13 years ago in this thread...

As I said then, singing as part of a choir or playing as part of a band/orchestra doesn't faze me too much. Despite what some may think, I am to a large extent shy and introverted. This confuses people who know me from say a work environment where I would quite happily stand in front of a room of people and give a technical presentation. I had no issue taking Q&A sessions in such environments.

Ask me to walk into a room of say a dozen people I don't know, in especially a social context (i.e. no guaranteed points of commonality) and I will struggle. I feel like an outsider and not part of things.

I did not play music publicly as a youngster. I didn't start singing lessons until I was in my mid-30s. So I wasn't introduced to public solo performance as a youngster. I get more and more anxious the nearer I am to singing or playing on my own.

I had my first ever (probable) panic attack doing my grade 3 sax exam where you perform technical exercises, scales, and pieces in front of an examiner. I do not know how I got through the scales as I was shaking so much.

I bit the bullet and sang solo in public for the first time ever at summer school last year. That went surprisingly well.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Ask me to walk into a room of say a dozen people I don't know, in especially a social context (i.e. no guaranteed points of commonality) and I will struggle. I feel like an outsider and not part of things.

For me too, a large amount of people is a crowd; a few people are individuals. Pub gigs are harder than a Festival / TV show.

 

[cappers]

I'm naturally introverted and a bit shy. As a kid I was petrified of doing anything in front of others and even now I am quite happy being alone. I score quite strongly on the Asperger's scale! But I do enjoying playing along with others. I think stage fright is down to a fear of being judged, messing up and looking foolish.

I chose a career in science and had to be able to speak, lecture, present and debate in public so when it comes to playing in front of others I don't get stage fright or performance anxiety. Might get mild butterflies but once I'm playing I tend not to see the audience. Someone (?Pete Thomas) said they imagine the audience naked which takes the pressure off!

I am a stubborn thick-skinned oldie who long ago gave up worrying what others thinks so it works for me.

I, for example, am an introvert - can stay by myself for days at a time - also somewhat shy, do not mingle freely at parties, but I do NOT have stage fright.

Ditto! I've read that a lot of performers especially actors, are naturally shy and acting seems to take them to a place of confidence and their shyness enhances their delivery to give powerful performances.

 

[Ivan]

I frequently get stage fright playing gigs

The triggers are, in no particular order:

1 Playing unfamiliar tune(s)
2 Setting up the PA to its best effect
3 Bringing all the PA kit and other peripherals
4 ULEZ restrictions and the Parking Taliban in Glasgow
5 Which sax to play on which tunes
6 The above (5) also based on space limitations for saxes and stowing sax cases, and for PA, which are unknown at a new venue
7 Also choice of sax based on loudness of gig... baritone looks fantastic but is quickly lost in the sonic arms race with guitar (Ian)
8 Getting there on time
9 Not arriving too early
10 Being rubbish at sight reading
11 What shirt to wear
12 Little or no audience?
13 Playing in tune (see sonic arms race (7))
14 Having sheets correctly written
15 Finding that I have misunderstood the less than clear instructions about what key and or which bit of a cover the horns are to play in order to write sheets (Often not the way I hear or understand it, thanks, Ian)
16 Soloing on tunes with changes that trip me up every time, despite going well when practicing
17 Knowing the more anxious I am, the worse my sight reading
18 Knowing that the worse my nerves, the worse I play, the worse my nerves, and so on
19 Knowing that the more anxious I am, the less well I sleep, the less well I play, which keeps me awake; you get the picture
20 Not getting a decent pre-gig feed

One trigger I ironed out years ago was the playability of the reed... That hasn't worried me since I went polypropylene

Things that quell my nerves are:

1 If another band member is clearly more anxious than me (Ian), though that can lead to erratic behaviours on stage that make me anxious (Ian)
2. If there's been some cock-up over which I have no control, so the worst has already happened... Most recently sound engineer arriving very late and audience held in freezing lobby until sound check completed... They were none the worse for their experience
3. If I've car-shared to the gig with Clare (cornet/flugelhorn) and we've sung through unfamiliar horn parts together

Apologies to Ian for the slander. He knows I don't loathe him

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ask me to walk into a room of say a dozen people I don't know, in especially a social context (i.e. no guaranteed points of commonality) and I will struggle. I feel like an outsider and not part of things.

Very normal. It's worse if all twelve already know each other well. It's better when nobody really knows each other. I try to look for something to talk about e.g. look for a compliment (without being creepy) "that's a very interesting tie." But if you can't find anything like that it has to be small talk hoping it sparks something. But I hate small talk whether its what do you do then? or have you travelled far? - I suppose those are better than looks like rain eh?

 

[not a perfect sax player]

@not a perfect sax player Hi Vern,

I've only been learning to play for a year now so you have much more experience and skill than I. However, after about six months my teacher suggested that I find others to play with and luckily there was a local amateur swing jazz band near me that welcomed people at any stage.

The thought of playing with others and in front of others scared me and for the first few sessions I just stood at the back trying not to make a fool of myself. Over time my confidence improved, as well as my music reading and general playing skills; I am even doing simple solos and improvisation. Most importantly I love it, best thing I've done, so much fun!

I am naturally introverted, a bit shy but affable, not seeking the limelight. I do have years of lecturing and public speaking experience and treat playing the same way. Deep breath and just do it. Even if you make a mistake, the audience (at least the type of audience we play for in pubs or bistros ) is unlikely to notice or care as long as you sound decent and have some rhythm. They aren't there to hear blistering bebop and technical wizardry, just simple recognisable tunes they can nod along to.

I remember one gig where we lost it near the end of a tune but our MD and band leader picked up the rhythm on his guitar and we got back on track and finished it ok to applause and some cheers for doing so!

I started a thread about joining a band, it goes on a bit now but might be helpful Saxophone beginners - Come on now, join the band.... You can tell from my playing that I'm a rank amateur but I'm having fun and haven't been asked to leave or step back!

Good luck. I'd say go for it, no-one is going to get hurt and the worst case scenario is one's ego might get a pasting!

Hi Cappers, that sounds exactly what I need, a group that aren't too critical of how you play and give you a chance to improve with them. My tutor did use to have a group of saxophonists, but she is very exact in how she does her arrangements and everything has to be spot on. Plus the gigs she does are normally about two hours so you need to know an awful lot of tunes, just a step too far for me at the moment. I also tend to shy away from the limelight, so important for me to come out of my shell.
I had a look at your link and I'm really pleased you are getting so much pleasure from playing. Keep on blowing!
Cheers Vern.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Great tips, Vern (@not a perfect sax player). I just want to wish you well!

As @PigSquealer says, everyone goes through this to some extent. So it's not just 'your' problem!

I'm probably known for long, rambling posts on the café but this one (too) is with my best intentions.

Lots of things have already been mentioned that you can do to reduce or mitigate 'performance anxiety'. As far as I know, anxiety has interrelated mental and a physical effects. So 'anxious thoughts' tend to be reflected in increased muscle tension and shallow breathing: the old 'fight/flight/freeze' responses to a perceived risk or danger. So a short physical 'warm-up' (legs, arms, fingers) can help to reduce muscle tension and deepen your breathing. And can also work through to a 'calmer' mental state.
As you might expect, there are very many internet articles and video's on 'performance anxiety' (a.k.a. 'stage fright'). Violinist Amy Littlewood's 'Performance Anxiety Coaching Guidance' on the Musician's Union website is probably the best I've come across. Especially her sub-sections on 'Understanding how Anxiety Manifests' and 'Root Causes'.

Most 'popular' internet articles and video's focus on 'how to overcome' or at least mitigate performance anxiety. Amy's article invites readers to at least reflect on what some 'Root Causes' might be. Her article - I assume - is aimed at professional musicians. But I think that the article is also helpful for amateur musicians.

Just on a personal note, 3 things that have helped me (as an amateur) over the years are:
- my 2nd sax tutor's advice that 'you're unlikely to perform in public at your best performance level in practice; so if you're mentally prepared to play at about 80% of your best 'practice performance' level, you won't be disappointed and you won't be so easily thrown off course by a few mistakes'.
- the growing realisation that 'musicians are their own worst critics'; we can feel truly awful about wrong/fluffed notes, missed timing, skipped sections, etc. While our 'audience' of non-musicians barely notices. They just hear what we play, not what we intended to play.
- my own realisation (in bands) that 'hey, we're all amateurs here and we're all playing the best we can on the day'. Not perfect and with a couple of mistakes but hopefully good enough to entertain you'.

For me, these points have - over the years - taken the pressure off my 'performance anxiety'. I prepare as best I can, 'loosen up' before gigs but I have no illusion that I'm always going to give my 'best performance'. If it happens on the day, I'm delighted. If it's (generally - or just barely) 'good enough' then I'm happy too.

If you only play solo (for family and friends or in a jam session), one tip that I learned from an informal workshop on 'public speaking' was to take the time to establish your 'personal presence' and make personal contact with your audience. Looking around, making eye contact, saying a couple of things like "I'm glad that you're here. I'm nervous about playing for you and I hope you'll forgive my occasional mistakes and give me some some tips for how I can improve".

What does this kind of dialogue mean? Nr. 1, it creates a personal 'bond' between (a vulnerable) you and your audience. So it greatly reduces the 'distance' between you and your audience. It creates a 'We' feeling in which the audience become 'supporters' wishing you to play well. And are also emotionally invested in your continued improvement.
In terms of 'anxiety', it becomes a much safer, less intimating space. Audience and band members are much more likely to offer supportive, encouraging comments that just 'criticism'.

Once again, I wish you well!

Mike

PS. I once took a 3 year part-time course in 'therapy'. Mainly for my own personal therapy but I did apply what I'd learned in 'business coaching'. My old course tutor and classmates would have asked more about your café name. In the sense that pretty much all café members are far from being 'perfect' sax players. So why did choose this one? Entirely up to you but perhaps a more 'positive' café name (learning..., etc.) would better reflect your sax status.