Playing the saxophone Sound reduction through a party wall

[cappers]

Did some measuring and a single layer of 12.5mm thick plaster board to cover the alcoves and chimney breast from floor to ceiling (~24sqm) costs about £300. Double that for two layer plus the cost of wood for studding, sealant, plastering, painting etc. That does not include any work to the floor or ceiling. It's not the money per se, more the bother and whether the results justify the outlay. I can the Law of Diminishing Returns applying here.

As there haven't been any complaints for months I won't bother. I think it's more me being worried than them being disturbed.. apart from her grumpy old lodger, ex Para, calls it my trombone, and doesn't like jazz.. I get two hours a week band practice where I can blow to my heart's content, and can practise long tones and dynamics in the bathroom.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[LostCircuits]

Here is another "temporary" soluttion, easy to install and remove. Get some cheap area rug and hang it from the ceiling with an air gap to the wall. It'll still let some of the low frequencies pass but it'll absorb a lot of the ambient. We did something like that in a bar I was involved in a few decades ago, in that case, we just hung "banners" from the ceiling but the amount of sound that is absorbed is pretty amazing.

 

[Pete Thomas]

paper would act as sound proofing possibly.

Sadly it doesnt

nailed into existing wall surfaces then two layers gyp board over that. In the voids between the furring, throw in some fiberglass batt insulation. So now you got two layers of gyp board (mass) , direct surface connection to existing wall is only the surface area of the furring studs (as opposed to entire surface of gyp panels)

Yes this could be good. Bear in mind insulation should be sound insulation which is normally rock wool as opposed to fibreglass batt that is thermal insulation and in the UK is usually thicker than 2”.

But having said that rockwool is not as good as sheer mass of material to actually reduce sound. But as you say two layers of plasterboard (especially the extra thick fire retardant pink stuff) will do wonders. Beyond that it’s probably diminishing returns for a domestic studio (until you get to the ultimate 3 feet of granite)

It’s also worth noting that you don’t have to have 100% contact for panels because with modern grab adhesives you can fix with “dot and dab”

We just had a toilet put in with stud walls and building control specifically ask for sound insulation and you have to keep an eye on the builders who otherwise would just put cheaper thermal insulation and heaven forbid, people will hear your bodily functions.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Double that for two layer plus the cost of wood for studding,

See above, “dot and dab” cheap and cheerful diy solution. A strategically placed shelf and you don’t even need to skim the plasterboard, aka dry lining.

 

[LostCircuits]

heaven forbid, people will hear your bodily functions.

Just say it's a new student

 

[mizmar]

Sound will still pass by 'flanking transmission', vibration borne through the floor and ceiling (acting as large microphone diaphragms) into the party wall via the floor and ceiling joists, and re-radiated on the other side by the wall acting as a big loud speaker inside your neighbour's room.

Fascinating thought.
Do you know, in a typical UK terrace house, What's more important? Floor, ceiling, wall?

 

[Zasterz]

Fascinating thought.
Do you know, in a typical UK terrace house, What's more important? Floor, ceiling, wall?

To control sound pass-through, typically a room within a room is built. That’s a full room with a floor, walls and ceiling. It’s usually placed on some sort of rubber pads on top of the existing floor. The whole “box” is insulated with all possible gaps sealed with spray goop or the like. No part of the structure touches any part of the existing room beyond the rubber pads between the floors. This will make it somewhat quieter in the larger room, though not enough to sleep there (I’ve lived in a space with one.) But it will be pretty quiet to neighbors in an adjoining space (though probably not totally silent.)

Practical Studio Soundproofing: Part 4

If you have the space, the time and the money, the best sound isolation can be achieved by building a room within a room. Paul White explains what's involved.

www.soundonsound.com

There’s really no method of just treating an existing room with any kind of materials— even if you could put up 6 feet of bricks along all walls— that would achieve meaningful sound pass-through reduction. Such methods can be great for making the room sound good inside, but they won’t do anything to reduce volume outside of the room.

 

[skeller047]

I just want to make sure - if you do put something in place, @cappers, don't neglect the interfaces to the ceiling and the floor. And the side walls. If you don't seal those well, adding air space or double thickness plaster will have no effect.

 

[mark_addy]

Fascinating thought.
Do you know, in a typical UK terrace house, What's more important? Floor, ceiling, wall?

Walls are the heaviest, unless they are stud (plasterboard, or lath and plaster in older houses). So floors and ceilings do worse - but this is only a big problem if you are in a flat (in a house) - and then it's a big problem. Blocks of flats tend to use poured concrete floors between levels; this is OK for airborne sound, but not necessarily for footfall etc which is why a 'tapping machine' exists (to test carpets and other floor coverings for impact sound reduction). As Zasterz points out, you have to really go for it to get high levels of sound reduction as a retrofit, and one bit of overlooked weakness will very seriously compromise the whole scheme. (A good example might be threshold seals, which if omitted or poorly fitting, can completely scupper the whole point of fitting an expensive heavy 'acoustic' door).

 

[thomsax]

@cappers Don't start anything in your house. It seems to be a great room. If you can't develop as saxplayer as is, maybe should consider other ways to solve your problem.

You will problay have less time to develop as saxplayer if you start to rebuilt you house:

After the rehearsal:

" - Gee, "Cappers" was tired tonight!"

" - It's the rebuilding of his house that's killing his embouchure, timing and concentration .... . He don't have time to practice so much since he started to built his saxroom .

We use to say: "Medan gräset gror, dör kon". I'm over 70 and time is tight when it comes to playing the saxophone.

It's cheaper (better?) to pay for your neighbours so the can go to the pub or a café for some hours while you are honkin'! 😉

 

[jazzdoh]

It's cheaper (better?) to pay for your neighbours so the can go to the pub or a café for some hours while you are honkin'!

Wow, thats your best solution, it seems really radical that you would offer your neighbours money to leave their house, what if they don't want to?

 

[Targa]

Wow, thats your best solution, it seems really radical that you would offer your neighbours money to leave their house, what if they don't want to?

Play louder.

 

[mark_addy]

@cappers Don't start anything in your house. It seems to be a great room. If you can't develop as saxplayer as is, maybe should consider other ways to solve your problem.

You will problay have less time to develop as saxplayer if you start to rebuilt you house:

After the rehearsal:

" - Gee, "Cappers" was tired tonight!"

" - It's the rebuilding of his house that's killing his embouchure, timing and concentration .... . He don't have time to practice so much since he started to built his saxroom .

We use to say: "Medan gräset gror, dör kon". I'm over 70 and time is tight when it comes to playing the saxophone.

It's cheaper (better?) to pay for your neighbours so the can go to the pub or a café for some hours while you are honkin'!

When I was working in acoustics, that's a solution I've seen applied in industry (firm buys the row of houses).

 

[thomsax]

Wow, thats your best solution, it seems really radical that you would offer your neighbours money to leave their house, what if they don't want to?

I forgot this 😉!!

I use to organize concerts in a nice old cinema built for silent movie. Over the cinema lived eldery persons that didn't like our music. I understood them completly. They were the same age as my parents. I had booked the cineme for two concerts so I just had to do the concerts. I asked them if it was ok for them if I paid for a restaurant visit. They accepted. I didn't gave them money, I bought gift card. And I bought flowers as well to placed on table. I'm a restaurant person ... .

I didn't boolk the cinema after that. They eldery missed my gift cards and the owner of the cinema missed my money. After that I booked the music at places were the loud R&B and Rock music was accepted.

 

[thomsax]

After after that I didn't rent concert places any more. Just tried to sell in rocksaxophonists with a band where there were no or less distrurbing elements.


Back to the topic.

 

[JayeNM]

Sadly it doesnt

Yes this could be good. Bear in mind insulation should be sound insulation which is normally rock wool as opposed to fibreglass batt that is thermal insulation and in the UK is usually thicker than 2”.

But having said that rockwool is not as good as sheer mass of material to actually reduce sound. But as you say two layers of plasterboard (especially the extra thick fire retardant pink stuff) will do wonders. Beyond that it’s probably diminishing returns for a domestic studio (until you get to the ultimate 3 feet of granite)

It’s also worth noting that you don’t have to have 100% contact for panels because with modern grab adhesives you can fix with “dot and dab”

We just had a toilet put in with stud walls and building control specifically ask for sound insulation and you have to keep an eye on the builders who otherwise would just put cheaper thermal insulation and heaven forbid, people will hear your bodily functions.

Yes that sorta insulation you mention is def better soundwise