Saxophones Soprano - curiosity.....

[LisaP2026]

Currently learning alto but thinking about hiring a sop just to see what it's like but have a couple of questions.....

1) is sop more difficult to play than an alto?

2) have heard that they are more prone to going out of tune - is this the case?

3) would you recommend a straight or a curvie to try?

Or would you suggest sticking with the alto until more competent......?

 

[LisaP2026]

OK - to answer some of the questions raised:

I guess you are playing for fun?

@thomsax - yes, just playing for fun (& have no intention of playing in front of ANY audience!)

Well, I don't know about the specific piece of kit you're using

@turf3 - this is the Jazzlab Sax holder - SAXHOLDER-PRO - I found a standard neck strap was not particularly comfortable.

Now if the horn's full of leaks and you're having to close the keys with a gorilla grip to eke out the notes, then that's what needs to be addressed

@turf3 - my alto has been recently serviced and a couple of minor issues sorted out (tech says it plays well)the best solution is a one piece, straight sop with a curved neck

Take a step back, concentrate or focus on solving one problem first before adding a second one

@LostCircuits - good advice, just my natural impatience coming through!

a one-piece bent-neck sop for many reasons

the best solution is a one piece, straight sop with a curved neck

@LostCircuits & @Dr G - can you get a one piece with a curved neck, I've not seen one so far....not sure the Sax Holder would work with a sop but happy to give it a try if I can find the right sop!

You can test your tolerance with a simple 1.5 litre bottle of water. These weigh in at around 1.5kg...which is pretty much what a soprano weighs (give or take a couple of hundred grams). Find the balance point of the bottle and place your thumb under it...then hold the bottle about a foot away from your mouth - keeping the neck of the bottle pointed at your mouth. See how long it feels comfortable for. If you get muscle aches - that's fine, you can get used to that over time. If you get pain - it's a curvy for you. Try it over a week or so.

@Stephen Howard - thanks, will give this a go!

Now put a neck strap on the water bottle. Adjust it so you can drink without spilling water down your front or feeling pain in your hands or wrists

@Dr G - not quite sure how to attach a neck strap to a standard bottle of water??

 

[Dr G]

@LostCircuits & @Dr G - can you get a one piece with a curved neck, I've not seen one so far....not sure the Sax Holder would work with a sop but happy to give it a try if I can find the right sop!

My fav' sop is the Borgani "half-curved". The Yamaha YSS-82ZR is another that is currently manufactured (preceded by the 62R).

HALF CURVED SOPRANO SAX SPECIAL EDITION | Borgani Prof. Orfeo S.n.c. di Orfeo Borgani & C.

www.borgani.com

@Dr G - not quite sure how to attach a neck strap to a standard bottle of water??

 

[LisaP2026]

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[LostCircuits]

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It's prudent to avoid the bottleneck, otherwise you might end up with a double neck or a neck to neck situation, neither one will be what you want.

 

[Ivan]

...on the alto yet so don't want to spend (and potentially waste) a chunk of money...

Well, the discussion above emphasises that a cheap soprano is unlikely to play well

So, yes, learn on the alto you already have, but continue to covet a soprano, and keep the coveting going until...

1. You find a good soprano for a good price
2. You hear Gerry Mulligan and realise you love the baritone sound so much more

jazzlab sax holder pro with the alto and the adjustable part is as short as it will go which is just about the right length - this doesn't stop me getting achy hands/wrists though....?

I'm now torn between a straight (easier for maintenance according to Stephen Howard) or a curved (able to use a strap to take the weight)........hmm, what to do....?

1. My Jazzlab holder Mk1 will not shorten enough to hold my curved sop... So I use a small neck strap that half throttles me

2. I find a straight sop tiring to hold out in front

3. Classical sop players wave their straight sops in a figure of eight motion that has been described as, "Stirring the Porridge". Some think this action is a mildly ridiculous looking form of musical expression. The real reason for the side to side and up and down gesture is to boost the circulation to the rapidly blanching hands and fingers raised to the level of the chin for prolonged periods. Life blood is flung from heart to hands through the centripetal force of the pseudo-porridge agitation

4. A curved sop sits over the chest and your hands sit nicely relaxed to suit

5. All of these and other theories, comments and suppositions count for nothing compared to you playing the straight and curvy field

 

[Dr G]

1. My Jazzlab holder Mk1 will not shorten enough to hold my curved sop... So I use a small neck strap that half throttles me

Use a different neck strap. You’re welcome.

3. Classical sop players wave their straight sops in a figure of eight motion that has been described as, "Stirring the Porridge". Some think this action is a mildly ridiculous looking form of musical expression. The real reason for the side to side and up and down gesture is to boost the circulation to the rapidly blanching hands and fingers raised to the level of the chin for prolonged periods. Life blood is flung from heart to hands through the centripetal force of the pseudo-porridge agitation

Just no. This is just mean-spirited mockery - not cool.

Pause to consider that we are a community of musicians of varying interests and abilities.

FWIW, I hope that someday you are sufficiently consumed by the passion of your music that it compels you to move - regardless of genre.

 

[Tuppertn]

I'm currently using a jazzlab sax holder pro with the alto and the adjustable part is as short as it will go which is just about the right length - this doesn't stop me getting achy hands/wrists though....?

1. My Jazzlab holder Mk1 will not shorten enough to hold my curved sop... So I use a small neck strap that half throttles me

FWIW, the Jazzlab saxholder is easy to shorten. Drop the slider all the way to the hook and push the string back through the bracket until you see the knots. Re-tie the knots an inch or so further up the strings or tie them together where you want it.

 

[skeller047]

@LisaP2026 - I understand you don’t want to spend a lot of money on a soprano. Your idea is “find out whether I enjoy the soprano before committing a lot of money.” Unfortunately, if you proceed with a really cheap instrument, your purpose won’t be served.

A cheap soprano will not play like a good horn - the tone will be wonky, intonation difficult and the instrument itself will soon start disintegrating. How will that answer your question?

You will not find a decent quality new soprano for under £400+, and a good quality used one at that price will likely need a few hundred in service work.

Certainly try to find a place that rents a Yamaha, you will likely be able to find your answer in 2 or 3 months. Then start saving up 🙂 Barring that, one of the cheaper store brand sopranos is your best bet. Sakkusu, G4M are both in the £400 range. I played the BetterSax curved soprano at NAMM a couple months ago and it was very impressive. But that is nearer to £1000, as is Windcraft, the Dawkes house brand.

 

[Wonko]

I got myself a curved sop about a year ago.
As advised from various sources, I got a decent intrument to avoid having trouble with the intonation. So I went for a Rampone & Cazzani (2nd hand to keep it within my budget).
I went for a curved sop because I think it will be easier to play (ergonomics) and I think they look realy cool ;-)
And I use a short neck strap, got myself the one by Rampone that has a spreader, that avoids getting choked

Rampone & Cazzani Saxophone Strap S

Strap for Saxophone Size: Small, With snap hook, Slider made of olive wood, Comfortable neck strap

www.thomann.de

On tenor an baritone I use a strap that puts the weight on my shoulders, but with a sop, that doesn't matter so much because it is much lighter.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I'm currently using a jazzlab sax holder pro with the alto and the adjustable part is as short as it will go which is just about the right length - this doesn't stop me getting achy hands/wrists though....?

I'm now torn between a straight (easier for maintenance according to Stephen Howard) or a curved (able to use a strap to take the weight)........hmm, what to do....?

Hi there - do you have a teacher? You might be making the mistake of taking the weight of the sax on your thumb. I use a Jazzlab for tenor and alto. You shouldn't be 'lifting' the sax at all - the thumb is just used to push the sax away from you to the correct position to play.

If I can persuade my camera to talk to a trigger or my phone, I will try to post a photo to demonstrate later.

 

[Targa]

Hear, hear... I love the sop, it is so clarinet like. It is one of my favourite instruments, preferred even over the tenor! 😎 Why do you think Kenny G. has so much success with it?

His hair.

Use a different neck strap. You’re welcome.

Just no. This is just mean-spirited mockery - not cool.

Pause to consider that we are a community of musicians of varying interests and abilities.

FWIW, I hope that someday you are sufficiently consumed by the passion of your music that it compels you to move - regardless of genre.

Whereas mocking Kenny G is compulsory.

 

[LisaP2026]

Hi there - do you have a teacher? You might be making the mistake of taking the weight of the sax on your thumb. I use a Jazzlab for tenor and alto. You shouldn't be 'lifting' the sax at all - the thumb is just used to push the sax away from you to the correct position to play.

If I can persuade my camera to talk to a trigger or my phone, I will try to post a photo to demonstrate later.

Hi @Tenor Viol - I don't currently have a face to face teacher, just SaxSchool online from where I did find out about only using the thumb to push the horn away so I don't think I'm taking any (or at least, not very much!) weight on my thumb. I am trying to get hold of a relatively local teacher so they can check my posture etc but it's taking time.

 

[LisaP2026]

@LisaP2026 - Barring that, one of the cheaper store brand sopranos is your best bet. Sakkusu, G4M are both in the £400 range. I played the BetterSax curved soprano at NAMM a couple months ago and it was very impressive. But that is nearer to £1000, as is Windcraft, the Dawkes house brand.

@skeller047 - thanks, I do appreciate all the advice and am considering a used G4M straight for just under £200 (cosmetically a little worn but fully checked over) which might do the trick. Alternatively I'll see if I can find somewhere to rent a decent curved or straight one from and start saving....!!

 

[Wonko]

@skeller047 - thanks, I do appreciate all the advice and am considering a used G4M straight for just under £200 (cosmetically a little worn but fully checked over) which might do the trick. Alternatively I'll see if I can find somewhere to rent a decent curved or straight one from and start saving....!!

From what I read here, that G4M seems to be your best bet for a first impression on a tight budget.
finding a curvy for rent might be difficult .....
just had a thought
.....
Indeed, you can rent a "Curved Soprano - Sakkusu" here for £36.06 a month
And they also have a "hire-to-buy scheme"

Saxophone Hire - The UK’s Leading Sax Rental

Low cost high-quality saxophone hire from the World's leading saxophone specialist.

saxshop.com

 

[Colin the Bear]

As an exercise, to see how little input the hands need to have on alto, adjust the sling and the crook so that it lies across your body and you can play a C#, no hands. From this position use just your fingers to operate the main keys, without the thumbs being used. Like a piano keyboard.

It's not an ideal playing position but it will give you a starting position to see how little stress your thumbs need to take and how little gripping pressure needs to be applied.

 

[Dr G]

Whereas mocking Kenny G is compulsory.

I find it interesting that you bring up Kenny G in this context. You will have to search deep to find me in a Kenny G bashing thread. I just ignore him.

As far as this thread goes, if one finds the movement of a musician annoying, you can just close your eyes. If I close my eyes while listening to a Kenny G video, the annoying bit is still there. It’s not a bash, just an observation. Like I said, given a choice, I prefer to listen to others. I enjoyed Kenny Gorelick’s work with Jeff Lorber and bought Duotones when first released, but haven’t heard anything that seemed fresh since then. I miss Grover Washington Jr. and what he did to elevate others.

 

[LisaP2026]

As an exercise, to see how little input the hands need to have on alto, adjust the sling and the crook so that it lies across your body and you can play a C#, no hands. From this position use just your fingers to operate the main keys, without the thumbs being used. Like a piano keyboard.

It's not an ideal playing position but it will give you a starting position to see how little stress your thumbs need to take and how little gripping pressure needs to be applied.

@Colin the Bear - thanks! Have just tried this and very little stress/pressure on thumbs or fingers........the most pressure seems to be that around my lips!! I know my embouchure is too tight and am trying to relax it but.......it's hard!

 

[skeller047]

I know my embouchure is too tight and am trying to relax it but.......it's hard!

This is indeed the hardest part about embouchure. Your lips need to be firm - but only just so firm. If your muscles aren’t trained well, you can only tighten them all the way or completely relax them. But we need something in between for saxophone and that is tiring and takes time to develop.

 

[lydian]

@LisaP2026 , having played both straight and curved soprano for decades, I think the idea that they're easier on the hands and wrists than other saxes is very wrong. Soprano is much harder since you have to support the entire weight of the instrument. On other saxes, the neckstrap supports the entire weight. You can use a neckstrap on soprano too, but it's a bit awkward and still requires some support from your hands.

Personally, I've never had to play soprano more than one or two tunes at a time. Then I can rest playing other instruments. In big band situations, only a few tunes call for soprano. And on my own jazz combo gigs, I won't do more than two soprano tunes in a row. Unlike Kenny G, I never do a whole show only on soprano.

 

[turf3]

@LisaP2026..., I won't do more than two soprano tunes in a row. Unlike Kenny G, I never do a whole show only on soprano.

Probalby not a good idea to engage in a handshake grip strength contest with the G man.