Tech/maintenance Should a properly adjusted YTS-23 feel just as easy to play as a YTS-280?

[Paco T]

I have an older Yamaha YTS-23 and I’ve never been completely satisfied with how it responds.


About a year ago, I had the pads, felts and corks replaced, and it was adjusted at the same time. However, I still feel that it isn’t as easy to play as it should be.


Recently I tried a YTS-280 and was really surprised by the difference. The low notes felt very easy and secure, even when playing intervals, and the octave key operated very smoothly. With my YTS-23, on the other hand, I’m never completely sure whether switching octaves is going to produce a squeak. Also, the low notes from D downwards are, well, quite difficult to play.


So I’m wondering: if a YTS-23 is properly adjusted, should it feel more or less as easy to play and respond similarly to a YTS-280? Or is it normal for a YTS-23 to feel noticeably different because of its age and design?


I’m going to have mine checked by another technician, but I’d be interested to hear from people who have experience with both models.

 

[cappers]

I had a Vito branded YTS-23, and currently a YTS-25 (a 23 with high F#) and a YTS-32, and they 'feel' the same to me and are as easy to play as each other. The 23 keywork is a little less refined especially the octave mechanism, but the low notes should come out easily on any of them.

The YTS-23 was made in Japan and is known for its durability and ease of playing, while the YTS-280 is the newer, Indonesian-made 'beginner' model with a high F# key, which one may or may not find useful.

I think a revisit to a tech is in order.

This is worth a read.....Yamaha YTS23 tenor sax review

 

[Stephen Howard]

So I’m wondering: if a YTS-23 is properly adjusted, should it feel more or less as easy to play and respond similarly to a YTS-280? Or is it normal for a YTS-23 to feel noticeably different because of its age and design?

They should (and do) play almost exactly the same - at least in terms of response (the tone will very slightly different).
If your 23 isn't as easy and responsive to play as the 280 then there's something very wrong with it - and it very likely leaks like a sieve.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A £5 USB leak light from ebay will reveal any leaks. Every sax player should have one. imo.

A brand new saxophone will be easier to live with than something with half a century use on it. imo

 

[ghostler]

A brand new saxophone will be easier to live with than something with half a century use on it. imo

A properly serviced older sax should play as well as new and is considerably less expensive if just needing routine service.

Around 2002 I bought an old Selmer Bundy II alto used from a seller who left the recent service ticket inside the case, paid around $140 US. Did me well for a number of years.

Serviced it recently and passed it on to a relative for a sister's child. Sure it's a student model, but with the right mouthpiece makes a good inclimate weather / busking sax. Even Bundy's are good solid players.

 

[Stephen Howard]

A £5 USB leak light from ebay will reveal any leaks. Every sax player should have one. imo.

A brand new saxophone will be easier to live with than something with half a century use on it. imo

I get the general drift - and in some circumstances it warrants some consideration. But when it comes to Yamahas, half a century is just about run-in. Yeah, the pads will be shot to pieces by then - but the action will generally show a fraction of the wear associated with, say, the Selmer MkVI...and all that came before it.
Both my Yamahas are knocking on 50 years old (bought used in the '80's) and have had some very serious use...but neither are even close to needing any major action work.

 

[Grumps]

I have a few horns in the midst of their third half-century and another just a year and a half away. They still seem alright to me.

 

[ghostler]

I have my share of older instruments that are in decent condition, LeBlanc Model 37 Vito alto and low Bb bari of early 1950's design and several clarinets from the 1940's.

My mid 1960's LeBlanc Vito Resonite clarinet had several keys swedged during 2nd overhaul. The bari led a hard life as a high school loaner instrument, there is some slop in the keys, did various things to tighten them, my gain 12 years ago as a budget project sax. Both go with the turf.

My 1940's G. Penzel (Mueller Germany stencil) Pacemaker Grenadilla wood and René Dumont (Paris, FR) metal clarinets are low mileage clarinets I plan to restore along with 3 mid 1950's Boosey & Hawkes Edgware Grenadilla woods.

As time marches on and these workhorse Mark VI's retire being thoroughly worn out, other newer saxes will fill the void and become beloved faved legends.

 

[JayeNM]

They ARE essentially the same instrument, mostly same design, the 280 has a high F# I believe ?

Good points made both hypothesis. In theory, a thirty year okd horn if in good tack...pads sealing, no key play, springs adjusted...should play as well as the same model brand newish.

But...I can also see the reality that the new one would 'feel' snappier under the fingers.

If it is actually NOTES SPEAKING CLEANLY which is the primary diff, then indeed there are some leaks, likely.
FWIW...on Yamas from tge 80s-90s....having to do some key swedging is pretty common, in my experience.

 

[PigSquealer]

Recently I tried a YTS-280 and was really surprised by the difference. The low notes felt very easy and secure, even when playing intervals, and the octave key operated very smoothly. With my YTS-23, on the other hand, I’m never completely sure whether switching octaves is going to produce a squeak. Also, the low notes from D downwards are, well, quite difficult to play.

Same reed & mouthpiece on both ?
On the 23, secure a rubber glove over the bell. Install the neck. Finger all the keys closed and suck down the glove via end of crook. You should be able to hold decent vacuum for 10-15 seconds. If not you have leaks.

 

[Paco T]

I’ve taken the sax to the repair shop. The tech had a quick look at it and said the right-hand keys are pretty badly adjusted, and the left-hand ones are even worse. So it’s leaking in quite a few places.

He says he’ll get it playing like the YTS-280 I tried. Hopefully I’ll pick it up by the end of the week. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks a lot, everyone!

 

[mizmar]

Seems a little odd that it was padded and adjusted but is now so leaky.
Either the original job was poor or it took a knock or fall or something?

 

[Paco T]

Seems a little odd that it was passed and adjusted but is now so leaky.
Either the original job was poor or it took a knock or fall or something?

I think it could be both things. The previous technician definitely didn’t do a good job. I had to take it back several times afterwards because I wasn’t completely happy with how the instrument was working.


Although it hasn’t had any falls or knocks over the last year, I have travelled with it quite a lot, by plane, car and motorbike. I think the sax moves around a bit inside the case, and that may have made things worse.


I’m planning to buy some polyurethane foam to keep the sax from moving around and give it a bit more protection inside the case.


But, as I said, I mostly suspect the previous repair shop I used. Let’s see if this technician can actually get it properly adjusted.

 

[Colin the Bear]

If it's just regulation, Yamaha regulation is a very simple and straight forward procedure.

 

[ghostler]

Although it hasn’t had any falls or knocks over the last year, I have travelled with it quite a lot, by plane, car and motorbike. I think the sax moves around a bit inside the case, and that may have made things worse.

On an aircraft, if your sax was carry on luggage with you, this is the most safe. If it had to be checked in luggage, it could get knock out of alignment with all the jossling the airport people and equipment do to it.

Back in high school 55 years ago, my band went from Honolulu Airport to Maui and back, visited their high school and played a concert for them. My YAS-61 pro alto went as checked baggage. The case took some knocks, which surprised me. Fortunately the sax was unharmed.

I think it could be both things. The previous technician definitely didn’t do a good job. I had to take it back several times afterwards because I wasn’t completely happy with how the instrument was working. .... But, as I said, I mostly suspect the previous repair shop I used. Let’s see if this technician can actually get it properly adjusted.

In high school, my personal Vito student clarinet now 5 years old was serviced by a shop in Honolulu. They really didn't do a good job. Being a teen and my first, I really didn't know what to do.

Two years later now a student at the US Naval School of Music in Virginia, their Navy repair tech at the school overhauled it for cost of materials plus, a bargain.

He did a professional job, even restored the gilding in the engravings, except for usual wear, it looked and played like new.

 

[PigSquealer]

I’ve taken the sax to the repair shop. The tech had a quick look at it and said the right-hand keys are pretty badly adjusted, and the left-hand ones are even worse. So it’s leaking in quite a few places.

That was detectable by pop test. You just need to learn what to listen for.
Understand there’s leaks from pads not sealing. And leaks from regulation / timing issues.

He says he’ll get it playing like the YTS-280 I tried. Hopefully I’ll pick it up by the end of the week. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

His first time reviewing your 23 ? I’m not surprised he asked to leave it for service.
It’s reasonable to spend time in review of pad work. Make fit adjustments, float, increase impression etc then let rest to see where they stay. Big changes in humidity and temperature can affect pads too. Each pad maker has different characteristics.
Yamaha regulation is done by adjusting screws. Sometimes they need a spot of agent to secure after adjustment. They can vibrate loose and ruin the settings. Just a pinhead of clear fingernail can make the difference.

 

[PigSquealer]

I think it could be both things. The previous technician definitely didn’t do a good job. I had to take it back several times afterwards because I wasn’t completely happy with how the instrument was working.

Did you test play the instrument before leaving the shop ? I always encourage a test play before leaving. If anything changes that’s the fix to address. No guesswork.

Although it hasn’t had any falls or knocks over the last year, I have travelled with it quite a lot, by plane, car and motorbike. I think the sax moves around a bit inside the case, and that may have made things worse.

Different use environment than sitting at home on a stand. Tell the technician this above.

I’m planning to buy some polyurethane foam to keep the sax from moving around and give it a bit more protection inside the case.

What case are you currently using ? Review this upgrade with your technician. Qualify the case is worthy up enhancement, or better off buying a better case for travel needs.

 

[Dr G]

What case are you currently using ? Review this upgrade with your technician. Qualify the case is worthy up enhancement, or better off buying a better case for travel needs.

+2.3 to get a good case. “Cases are so expensive”… so are repairs.

 

[Paco T]

Thanks everyone for your replies! The sax case is a Jakob Winter. When I pick it up, I’ll mention my concerns about the case to the tech.

By the way, whenever I’ve travelled by plane, I’ve always taken the sax with me as carry-on — I’ve never checked it in.

 

[Pete Effamy]

There's a certain amount of "Trigger's Broom" in this old vs new argument (for non-UK readers the joke goes "I've had this broom for 30 years and just changed the head and handle a few times...". Same goes with old mics - they get reskinned / new valve..

So: new springs, pads and cork and a good setup. If no wear on metalwork then it could even play better than when out of the factory if a good tech has had their hands on it. Plenty of pro musicians (most ?) play on relatively old instruments as they know how they play. They wouldn't play them if they were substandard or obstructive in any way.