IOTM Sept 2015 - 'Turn Down not Tuna App!'

[aldevis]

Do you live at the bottom of a well?

Translation:

you choice of reverb could be revised

 

[billbluesnjazz]

In Scottish, last time I played at the jazz festival in a Rennie Mackintosh church the sound was pretty close to this, so perhaps too much reverb for those not used to a great acoustic environment.

I did think about Wells Catherdral, but that is a bit OTT even for me!

 

[Jeanette]

In Scottish, last time I played at the jazz festival in a Rennie Mackintosh church the sound was pretty close to this, so perhaps too much reverb for those not used to a great acoustic environment.

I did think about Wells Catherdral, but that is a bit OTT even for me!

I thought it sounded great and will be out digging my own well to play in 😉

Thanks for posting, even though you have depressed me 🙂

Jx

 

[Nick Wyver]

perhaps too much reverb for those not used to a great acoustic environment.

None of the pubs I play in sound like this.

Although I have done solos in churches and a cathedral once (with a quartet).

 

[aldevis]

None of the pubs I play in sound like this.

Is there a plugin available to add pub noise to recordings?
I know they were working on a "Jarrettizer" for piano, that automatically adds out-of-tune moaning to existing piano parts...

 

[Nick Wyver]

Is there a plugin available to add pub noise to recordings?

I am available for hire.

I know they were working on a "Jarrettizer" for piano, that automatically adds out-of-tune moaning to existing piano parts...

S'funny. I was just listening to "Sleeper" and being reminded of those strange noises.

 

[billbluesnjazz]

@Jeanette, Chris has done a great job with this IOTM, because it helps you to build fundamentals. You can only really progress if you have solid fundamentals, and if I may be so bold, in order to improvise freely in the jazz idiom, a knowledge of triads and facility with triads on the instrument is essential. It is well worth practising major and minor triads first. Do them round the cycle of fifths, chromatically up, chromatically down, down in tones (whole steps) up in tones (whole steps) and so on. Mainstream jazz is based on Classical Triadic Harmony, forget quartal harmony for the time being. Make sure that you play each triad in every inversion, Root, First and Second Inversion.

Once you are comfortable with this, then set your metronome at a steady tempo say 60 bpm and play through the triads. You can play triplets, or 1351, 1353 and so on. Also start at any note and play all triads up and down from the note that have it in it. You can later on extend your study to diminished and augmented triads, but leave that for now.

If you have played through the cycle of fifths, then you have played triads for every possible ii V I there is (e.g. in C major, the triads are D minor, G major and C major). This gives you a good starting point. Later on, you can use the triads to play rootless voicings such as G major to represent C maj 9 (G, B, E of G is 5, 7, 9 of C). All this without even playing a four note seventh voicing.

We'll come to scales later, but that is another topic.

Hope this is not too simple for you.

All the best, Bill

 

[Jeanette]

Hope this is not too simple for you.

Not too simple at all and thank you for taking the time to respond 🙂

Jx

 

[aldevis]

Once you are comfortable with this

Here lies the tricky bit for most of us...

 

[Bolding]

@billbluesnjazz i don't know what is simple for you, but ur speech just made me give up completely on this excercise.

 

[aldevis]

@billbluesnjazz i don't know what is simple for you, but ur speech just made me give up completely on this excercise.

Come to terms with it. There is no universal explanation, and in writing things seem more complicated.
Bill's approach is quite pragmatic: you only learn 24 triads first, and you can address any major 251.

My approach would take longer...

 

[Jeanette]

@billbluesnjazz i don't know what is simple for you, but ur speech just made me give up completely on this excercise.

No don't do that, even I got some of it but @billbluesnjazz feel free to dumb it down even more 🙂

Jx

 

[Colin the Bear]

@billbluesnjazz i don't know what is simple for you, but ur speech just made me give up completely on this excercise.

The exercise is very very simple.

NB an explanation that doesn't, isn't

 

[Bolding]

I think if I was to get anything recorded in the IOTM at this point, i would have to completely forget any advice given in the entire thread & just play. You all make it sound so complicated & unattainable, Bill was just the last nail in the coffin.
I hope you guys realize how much you sound like marsmen, when you start talking that theory..

 

[aldevis]

I hope you guys realize how much you sound like marsmen, when you start talking that theory..

Not really.
Since I come from Venus (where I was hoping to have a different career), I put things my way:
9 arpeggios, 3 scales, do something.

Colin or Bill can have a different approach more suitable for other kind of brains.
Sometimes one approach can work better for one person.

As I said, Bill's post makes your life actually easier, but in writing looks very complicated.

Since I know that you are a Mingus guy... You can play Goodbye Pork Pie Hat using just a pentatonic or you can spend a lifetime following the secondary dominants.

Both approaches are worth being expressed on a forum like this. Just get what suits you.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I hope you guys realize how much you sound like marsmen, when you start talking that theory..

Ok. Never let it be said that I don't respond to valid criticism.

Stick the sax in your mouth. Blow and waggle your fingers about.

 

[Colin the Bear]

This can be one of the problem with forums. Too much information at one time over faces the reader. The tilt light comes on (pinball reference) or the overload trips. I'm sure it's done with good intentions.

There are members at different stages of the journey. Some right at the start. This exercise is very subtly designed for all levels. The comments about it are more complicated than the exercise.

If you keep at it you will be amazed how quickly you pick up all the terminology and find it's not complicated at all.

I remember well that feeling of listening to gobbledygook

 

[Jeanette]

@Bolding only a couple of months or so ago I would have said the same as you. In fact the first couple IOTM I pretty much did just this

Stick the sax in your mouth. Blow and waggle your fingers about.

I probably had a couple of comments about which notes to avoid but other than that just went for it and I enjoyed my first one so much. 🙂

In all honesty every one since has got harder and less enjoyable but only in a good way as I have tried to learn some of the theory and then put it into practice. I am hoping that if I keep having a go and keep applying bits of the theory this panful period will end and I will come out the other side a slightly better player.

I also want to encourage other less advanced player to have a go so by posting my attempts which are so far away from the pro's hopefully will make it easy for them to post. So don't leave me sat here on my own get something recorded and I suspect it will be much better than you think 🙂

You have to start somewhere and it's the commitment to yourself to keep going that counts. Posting the outcome for me kind of draws a line and gives me something to build on. Re the comments and advice you get here take what works for you at that point in time and come back to the rest later.

There are members at different stages of the journey. Some right at the start. This exercise is very subtly designed for all levels. The comments about it are more complicated than the exercise.

If you keep at it you will be amazed how quickly you pick up all the terminology and find it's not complicated at all.

Agree totally with Colin 🙂

Jx

 

[billbluesnjazz]

Didn't mean to spark off a great debate. The post was for Jeanette and is just one approach.

To simplify it even further. Learn only the major triads first. Then for any ii V I e.g. in the key of C major, play the IV triad, here F major, over the ii (D minor) then the V triad over the V (G major( and the I triad over the I (C major). you can even simplify it further and play only the IV (F) over the first two bars effectively playing D min then G9 sus and then the I over the I. Remember that the bass player will play the roots in any case.

If you practise this then add in some chromaticism as the original post suggested you will be surprised how easy it is to make some cool sounds.

It is a short cut, but hopefully one that will encourage people to play over the changes,

Bill

 

[Jeanette]

Didn't mean to spark off a great debate

Great debates are just that, great 🙂

But now I am confused, can you give me that info in relation to the first line of the piece we are looking at ie key of G maj?

Jx