Reeds Reeds warping to the mouthpiece facing curve

[Pete Thomas]

And also take in less mouthpiece, I get the feeling taking in too much might be the cause of reeds bending.

 

[davidk]

I read on this forum a while back something about flicking the reed. That might help.

Reeds - Hard reed to playable in 10 seconds; this trick works.

I posted another thread regarding reeds that came too hard to play (Rico changed their process) and was looking to buy softer ones and then I came across this trick on Youtube and it really works (don't overdo it). View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_A9xKiyoDA I've only done it with two...

cafesaxophone.com

There’s also this reed case to store the reeds bent the other way if you’re feeling spendy: reed cases Archives - WoodWindDesign

 

[mrblackbat]

I’d be more in favor of relaxing embouchure and more air support.

I used to to think you need to “move up” I went up to 4 strength. But then worked back down to 2 or 2.25 by working on breath and embouchure.

So my embouchure is pretty loose, not much looser I can get…. 😀

Though I do take in a fair amount of mouthpiece, so your follow up may have some credence. Thing is I like what that does to my sound.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Though I do take in a fair amount of mouthpiece, so your follow up may have some credence.

Well it just occurred to me maybe biting at the heart area of the reed as opposed to near the tip could potentially make a difference. I try to make the position flexible

 

[mrblackbat]

I would have thought it would be the other way round, to be honest, but there we go. Of course, as I say I don't think I bite especially....

 

[mizmar]

Lick it, play it. Wipe it clean, stick it in a reed case after playing.

I've not seen a definite analysis but... I've seen elsewhere, but wiki says it nicely

The mechanical role of cellulose fibers in the wood matrix responsible for its strong structural resistance, can somewhat be compared to that of the reinforcement bars in concrete, lignin playing here the role of the hardened cement paste acting as the "glue" in between the cellulose fibres.

The lignin cross connects the long cellulose fibers. If the lignin bond to the fibers is degraded the reed won't be springy; and water will degrade those bonds. I suspect some of the ritual behaviours people develop, like rubbing, polishing, playing a little on fresh reeds, facing south sky clad at full moon while opening the packet and such - are ways, in part, to seal the reed to reduce water ingress...

It might be worth considering your fresh reed prep routine?

 

[Saxlicker]

So the prompt for the reason for the initial post is, you are finding that makes the reed feel softer and hoping to find reeds that aren't so prone to warping towards the tip?

I get past these 2 issues within a few minutes of playing.
1) Like other posters, I find reeds warp as well and usually closing the tip opening when the reed in't vibrating. But once the reed has moistened and vibrating properly again at its full range, that the warp has an unnoticeable effect. It's at that point when I decide if the reed has got too soft in its own right.
2) The other warpage is generally that the tip of the reed can take the shape of a crinkle cut chip when dry and that also disappears once moist enough.

Very occasionally though, it can be that I don't get past those few minutes before deciding the warp you speak of may have gone too far like 10 times in 40 years.

 

[mrblackbat]

So the prompt for the reason for the initial post is, you are finding that makes the reed feel softer and hoping to find reeds that aren't so prone to warping towards the tip?

I get past these 2 issues within a few minutes of playing.
1) Like other posters, I find reeds warp as well and usually closing the tip opening when the reed in't vibrating. But once the reed has moistened and vibrating properly again at its full range, that the warp has an unnoticeable effect. It's at that point when I decide if the reed has got too soft in its own right.
2) The other warpage is generally that the tip of the reed can take the shape of a crinkle cut chip when dry and that also disappears once moist enough.

Very occasionally though, it can be that I don't get past those few minutes before deciding the warp you speak of may have gone too far like 10 times in 40 years.

The issue is pretty much the opposite of what you're describing in point 1. The reed comes out my holder flat, but after playing for about half an hour they're closing up - if you look side on to the mouthpiece, the reed has curved up a whole bunch of degrees and it feels like its closing.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Try some D'Addario Reserve. They are cut from the lower, inter nodal they call it, part of the cane. More robust without being harder. The strengths seem to be in between some other makers and cuts so consult a comparison chart before ordering.

Curly woodwind do singles at a very reasonable price and quick turnaround.

 

[mrblackbat]

Try some D'Addario Reserve. They are cut from the lower, inter nodal they call it, part of the cane. More robust without being harder. The strengths seem to be in between some other makers and cuts so consult a comparison chart before ordering.

Curly woodwind do singles at a very reasonable price and quick turnaround.

D’Addario are generally the worst reeds I’ve played. Vandoren next.

 

[Colin the Bear]

D’Addario are generally the worst reeds I’ve played. Vandoren next.

But do they bend?

 

[mrblackbat]

But do they bend?

Does it matter if they play like arse?

 

[Colin the Bear]

I play like an arse? 🤔

 

[skeller047]

All reeds are cut from the internodal parts of the cane. That just means the part between the nodes. The upper portions of the stalk are used for soprano, clarinet and oboe reeds.

You couldn’t use the node part for a reed, too gnarly…

 

[Pete Thomas]

And also take in less mouthpiece, I get the feeling taking in too much might be the cause of reeds bending.

I would have thought it would be the other way round, to be honest, but there we go

I would say yes, as you get to more extreme amount of mouthpiece taken in I’m sure there is less chance as your bite would be beyond the heart of the reed. Obviously the more you take in the less control of the reed by your lip and the closer you get to a bagpipe situation of the reed just vibrating freely with no actual embouchure to control it. Of course I’m not suggesting this is the case here.

If your bite is nearer the tip I believe it’s less likely to create a permanent bend as the reed is thinner and more flexible/supple.

 

[Targa]

I play like an arse? 🤔

Le Petomane?

 

[mark_addy]

Reeds are thin, so I am not sure if this will be helpful - but pieces of wood which get wetter on one side that the other normally cup towards the dry side as the moisture makes the wet side expand. If this happens to (say) an unsealed door, it can be effective to get the dry side wet, let it straighten up, then let it all dry out before sealing / painting it. Which makes me wonder whether plasticover reeds do this!

 

[Saxlicker]

The issue is pretty much the opposite of what you're describing in point 1. The reed comes out my holder flat, but after playing for about half an hour they're closing up - if you look side on to the mouthpiece, the reed has curved up a whole bunch of degrees and it feels like its closing.

Ah I see.
In which case, I can't even begin to guess if there is a brand or cut that would consistently help to avoid this.
But I guess then they are not likely to vibrate in the same fashion as they would if the rails were still pretty much straight / flat, as it sounds like it is changing where the reed breaks from the mouthpiece rails.
Don't over think it is the answer, pile them up for fire wood kindling 😀

 

[Dr G]

I've not seen a definite analysis but... I've seen elsewhere, but wiki says it nicely


The lignin cross connects the long cellulose fibers. If the lignin bond to the fibers is degraded the reed won't be springy; and water will degrade those bonds. I suspect some of the ritual behaviours people develop, like rubbing, polishing, playing a little on fresh reeds, facing south sky clad at full moon while opening the packet and such - are ways, in part, to seal the reed to reduce water ingress...

It might be worth considering your fresh reed prep routine?

Not “in part”, but specifically. You can test it for yourself. Soak a new reed in water, then suck on the butt end - it’ll pass water like a bundle of tiny straws (which it is). Rub/polish the vamp to crush shut the tubules at their ends. Try the suck test again - no water moving through the reed. That indicates to me that no water will move into those tubes when I wet the reed in my mouth (I don’t soak my reeds in a glass of water).

That’s the way I’ve been prepping my reeds for 20+ years, maybe 30 or more. Regardless, I find that it helps keep the reed from getting waterlogged. I don’t know that it has any effect regarding warping since I don’t experience much warping. I do rotate through several reeds in my reed holders, and dry my reeds flat between uses. As I wrote previously, I don’t notice much warping at all since I went from playing a 0.120 Lamberson J to a 0.105 Phil-Tone Intrepid. I don’t recall ever having either one close up on me, and I play pretty loud when soloing with a big band without a mic or just romping with the section at full volume.

 

[JSL]

I play fairly open tip mpcs on tenor (.120-.125) to balance out a med-high baffle. And yeah, I have noticed a slight tendency for the reed to bend toward the tip, especially as the reed starts to wear out. So, it doesn't happen much until the reed is getting worn out and ready to be discarded. Here's a tip on how to mitigate the situation and revitalize the reed temporarily. With the reed on the mpc, place a business card between the reed and the mpc and gently bend the reed outward away from the tip. This works well enough to get you through a gig or practice session. Years ago, I saw Gene Ammons doing this and wondered why. Later on, I found out. It works well. Give it a try and see.