Tech/maintenance (Re) Painting my sax?

[PigSquealer]

Hmm I have to honestly say that Conn looks a bit gash to me, looks like someone daubed some red oxide primer on it, then had at it with some coloured pens or something !

Consider the fact you’re looking at some thing 100 years old. The pigments may have faded, the paint may have oxidized. That and the color palette of the era was to a different liking.

 

[ghostler]

Hmm I have to honestly say that Conn looks a bit gash to me, looks like someone daubed some red oxide primer on it, then had at it with some coloured pens or something !

It's pro'ly close to 100 years old. Faded/discoloured? New IMO was nice.

 

[ghostler]

My thoughts exactly. I missed your comment when I posted a tag comment to @Vlad 's. And, perhaps the pinkish tinted sax was to garner a female following for the instrument? That was when a young man wanting to court a young lady visited her in her parent's parlour room.

 

[Dr G]

BlowoutSax

Painted Colorful Saxophone Musical Instrument Store

Juleez Hand painted saxophones, painted musical saxophone, saxophone gifts

www.juleez.com

Search on “hand painted sax”.

 

[MarkSax]

I love the look of the Juleez saxes but I don’t think my cousin is able to do that. She’s more into beach or desert sunsets.
I’ve removed the lacquer from the whole of the body with thinner using a brush. I started on the bell then thought I could actually keep some of the black but add some kind of drawing to the delacquered part. Anyway, I’ve ordered acrylic, enamel, auto paint samplers to test. In the meantime I’ll make sure the exposed parts are degreased. One other thing nagging me is whether I should have it serviced before the paintjob or after.

 

[Vlad]

I love the look of the Juleez saxes but I don’t think my cousin is able to do that. She’s more into beach or desert sunsets.
I’ve removed the lacquer from the whole of the body with thinner using a brush. I started on the bell then thought I could actually keep some of the black but add some kind of drawing to the delacquered part. Anyway, I’ve ordered acrylic, enamel, auto paint samplers to test. In the meantime I’ll make sure the exposed parts are degreased. One other thing nagging me is whether I should have it serviced before the paintjob or after. View attachment 29134View attachment 29135

Have it serviced After you've finished your painting, then you'll know it should work properly.

 

[greenstripe]

One other thing nagging me is whether I should have it serviced before the paintjob or after.

Definitely after with the one caveat if there's any chance of you needing solder work -that'll probably ruin the paint job so you'll want that doing first.

I wouldn't want to paint the key cups for the same reason -if you need any pad work done.

In the Sax School video, you'll notice he keeps all the needle springs in situ and tapes them up. I think this is a pretty sensible thing to do.

I'd also be inclined to put clear lacquer over the paint to protect it.

If you get paint on the rims of the tone holes, they'll probably need dressing back to bare metal to get a clean flat surface for the pads to seal against. Your tech may be able to do this for you.

 

[DaveT]

If you dismantle the sax to paint it then do consider Cerakote. Gives a very high quality finish that will withstand any conditions you or your sax might find yourselves in! The right company can do excellent work on small detailed parts for very expensive motorcycles so they can do it for your sax.

 

[ghostler]

I imagine there is one option, stop and just do nothing. The sax still plays. Once the corrosion sets in and the patina begins to display itself, now you have a new fashion statement.

You have a Rat Busking Sax. 😉

 

[Targa]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgT-EibJSA

 

[Vlad]

That's just a giant mouse, shirley ?

 

[ghostler]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7475707857900522774

 

[MarkSax]

99% de lacquered now with Acetone, one toothbrush for the large areas and a smaller one for the difficult to get to places. I like the look. I even Carnauba waxed it with regrettable outcomes, the whole sax was covered in verdigris the next day. Wiped that off and now I’m doing the last bits and then going to let it dry. It’s got these weird marks where I used a brush to remove the lacquer but I kinda like it.
Next step will probably be disassembly, unless I see a nice patina developing on the surface in which case I might just leave it like that.
I’ll only have the alto and the sop to play then so I’m not looking forward to that cause I’m pretty bad (more like extremely bad) on those.
Tested different paints and the auto paint looks the more promising visually but I’m slightly worried about its effects on the sound. We’ll see. Can always do another Acetone/Thinner job. 😰.

 

[Pete Thomas]

99% de lacquered now with Acetone, one toothbrush for the large areas and a smaller one for the difficult to get to places. I like the look. I even Carnauba waxed it with regrettable outcomes, the whole sax was covered in verdigris the next day. Wiped that off and now I’m doing the last bits and then going to let it dry. It’s got these weird marks where I used a brush to remove the lacquer but I kinda like it.

Surely you would need to disassemble before doing the last bits. Have you also checked whether the acetone got on the pads, I'm not sure of the effect it might have - could bet good could be bad - who knows?

BTW can you let me know your source of acetone, I have a bottle but may need some more to de-sticky some speakers. It seems to often hard to get in large quantities.

 

[Targa]

Surely you would need to disassemble before doing the last bits. Have you also checked whether the acetone got on the pads, I'm not sure of the effect it might have - could bet good could be bad - who knows?

BTW can you let me know your source of acetone, I have a bottle but may need some more to de-sticky some speakers. It seems to often hard to get in large quantities.

What do you mean by a large quantity?
A quick look on Amazon shows a litre for £9.

 

[MarkSax]

Surely you would need to disassemble before doing the last bits. Have you also checked whether the acetone got on the pads, I'm not sure of the effect it might have - could bet good could be bad - who knows?

BTW can you let me know your source of acetone, I have a bottle but may need some more to de-sticky some speakers. It seems to often hard to get in large quantities.

I’m pretty sure the acetone did get on the pads but they were wiped with a moist cloth seconds after passing the brush. Soundwise I can’t hear any difference and I’ll only find out if they’ve been damaged when the sax is completely disassembled.
I got the acetone from my local hardware store in NW4. It’s a sole trader and when I asked him he brought this out. Cost me a fiver.

 

[Pete Thomas]

OK, looks like acetone is easier to find that we I bought it before. Thanks

 

[JayeNM]

OK, so I read thru this entire thread, I think. 😱

From a tech point of view here is something SIGNIFICANT which I do not believe has been touched upon:

What happens when it gets dented ? What happens when the toneholes need leveling ? What happens when there is some play in the keywork between posts which needs to be addressed ? Neck pulldown or whacked out of plumb ? A resolder of a post or keyguard foot ?

Etc, etc...

All of the above, TYPICAL repair work....require that the elements of the brass (body, posts) be MOVED in order to address these (typical repair) issues. Posts get tapped with mallets to re-align them, dents gotta be taken out with balls and rods from the INSIDE, which does stretch the metal. Or that torch heat be applied (even changing out a pad requires a torch).

This is NOT a good finish for a sax, quite honestly.

Typical servicing and repair work is gonna likely start causing flaking and cracking of the paint. I have experienced this in repair work on painbted horns, even ones done at an autobody shop with pro applicators and prep work.

Secondly....there is NO DEBATE...you cannot apply a new finish, even with brushes...to an ASSEMBLED SAX.
Come now, folks....unless you wish it to look like a mediocre DIY job, this isn't even a viable path to take.

*I know I may be coming off as a wet blanket here, people seem pretty excited about painted horns (baffling to me, but I accept it)...but you wanna consider things like I have mentioned here.

That's a Selmer, France ?!?! I would NEVER do a painted finish on a model of any significnat value. Nor ever suggest it. Save the experimentation for a Cecilio.....

Personally, a self-DIY-refinish ? You don't wanna spring for a pro refinish (plating, for example) ? Just go with some sort of metal patina process, and research what kind of sealer can be used to keep the stuff from coming off within the first 6 months.

There are products out there for this, better than just hardware-store purchased stuff. I use products from a supplier in Arizona which speacializes in colorants for exterior metal sculptures, and they specify which metals which products work best on...for example.

OK, done.

 

[Dr G]

That's a Selmer, France ?!?! I would NEVER do a painted finish on a model of any significnat value. Nor ever suggest it. Save the experimentation for a Cecilio...

Yeah, that was an unexpected plot twist.

I recall being offered a Gibson ES-175 in the ‘70s that was “refinished” with black spray paint. Stolen? To me, a bad DIY refinish will always raise questions.

 

[MarkSax]

OK, so I read thru this entire thread, I think. 😱

From a tech point of view here is something SIGNIFICANT which I do not believe has been touched upon:

What happens when it gets dented ? What happens when the toneholes need leveling ? What happens when there is some play in the keywork between posts which needs to be addressed ? Neck pulldown or whacked out of plumb ? A resolder of a post or keyguard foot ?

Etc, etc...

All of the above, TYPICAL repair work....require that the elements of the brass (body, posts) be MOVED in order to address these (typical repair) issues. Posts get tapped with mallets to re-align them, dents gotta be taken out with balls and rods from the INSIDE, which does stretch the metal. Or that torch heat be applied (even changing out a pad requires a torch).

This is NOT a good finish for a sax, quite honestly.

Typical servicing and repair work is gonna likely start causing flaking and cracking of the paint. I have experienced this in repair work on painbted horns, even ones done at an autobody shop with pro applicators and prep work.

Secondly....there is NO DEBATE...you cannot apply a new finish, even with brushes...to an ASSEMBLED SAX.
Come now, folks....unless you wish it to look like a mediocre DIY job, this isn't even a viable path to take.

*I know I may be coming off as a wet blanket here, people seem pretty excited about painted horns (baffling to me, but I accept it)...but you wanna consider things like I have mentioned here.

That's a Selmer, France ?!?! I would NEVER do a painted finish on a model of any significnat value. Nor ever suggest it. Save the experimentation for a Cecilio.....

Personally, a self-DIY-refinish ? You don't wanna spring for a pro refinish (plating, for example) ? Just go with some sort of metal patina process, and research what kind of sealer can be used to keep the stuff from coming off within the first 6 months.

There are products out there for this, better than just hardware-store purchased stuff. I use products from a supplier in Arizona which speacializes in colorants for exterior metal sculptures, and they specify which metals which products work best on...for example.

OK, done.

Ok i get your points.
What would you suggest using to give it a decent patina in as little time as possible?
FYI, I got to this situation because the original black lacquer job Selmer did was so bad that it started flaking and spotting after just a couple of years ownership, even with regular wipedowns. Especially on the body tube and the neck. I made it worse by trying to paint over the flaked bits.
Then when taking the lacquer off i found that it was very unevenly applied to the sax. Very thick in places and very thin in others. It was just a very bad paint job. That put me off buying another Selmer new or new-ish.
Soundwise, i find it much better now, so in my opinion, the lacquer did affect how it sounded.
I could leave it as it is, unlacquered, it looks pretty enough to me and I’m sounding pretty good atm.