Tech/maintenance Question, my saxophone is cracked

[mizmar]

Just to add to this conversation. Here’s what the same clamp looks like on a SBA 80. The link joins the two halves. Then screws together as most do.

I'm pretty sure those pictures are from a Kawasaki KZ750 ... Ummm... 1976 ?

 

[LostCircuits]

Or...

They are two different words

I'm pretty certain it is the same word but it has different connotations depending on the context.

 

[turf3]

I'm pretty certain it is the same word but it has different connotations depending on the context.

Yiddish is largely but not completely derived from certain dialects of German. "Verklempt" in Yiddish (which is written in the Hebrew alphabet, so transliterations might vary) means "overcome with emotion". I dunno what exactly it means in modern German. Generally if you hear a middle aged American, especially some Jewish or with exposure to the jazz world or a resident of big cities, using words like

Schlemihl
Schlub
Verklempt
Schlep
Putz
Kvetch
Bubbe
Chutzpah
Meshugginah
Tchotchkes

it's almost certain that they're using Yiddishisms, not referring to the original German words from which these may have been derived.

 

[LostCircuits]

Yiddish is largely but not completely derived from certain dialects of German. "Verklempt" in Yiddish (which is written in the Hebrew alphabet, so transliterations might vary) means "overcome with emotion". I dunno what exactly it means in modern German. Generally if you hear a middle aged American, especially some Jewish or with exposure to the jazz world or a resident of big cities, using words like

Schlemihl
Schlub
Verklempt
Schlep
Putz
Kvetch
Bubbe
Chutzpah
Meshugginah
Tchotchkes

it's almost certain that they're using Yiddishisms, not referring to the original German words from which these may have been derived.

When I grew up in Southern Germany, most of these words were commonly used.
Putz: Stucco - clumsy person
Verklemmt (verklempt): clamped on or fastened - emotionally overwhelmed - choked
Meschugge: not quite right in the head, moron
Schlep: carry a heavy load, drag - annoying (thing - person)
Schlemihl - we had a whole clan of those in high school, by designation.
and so on
There has always been a strong Bohemian influence in these words and many are "Yiddish loanwords", i.e incorporated into Yiddish language but originating in a different language. The same goes for pretty much all European languages, the German Fisimatenten is originally French (visitez ma tente!) or the Austrian word Potschamperl (pot de chambre) - night pot.

 

[Dr G]

I've got another tenuous theory...

I'm wondering if the horn's had some dentwork done under the Eb tonehole. This is a very common job - that key guard often takes a whack. If a dent ball was placed under the top side of the tone hole and given a whack, the resulting upward force *might* have been enough to form a crack at the bottom of the clamp ring.
It's still a bit sketchy, but potentially has more legs than the other theories?

Brass remains ductile over a wide range of strain rates. Your idea might hold water if the band was at cryogenic temperature.

 

[LostCircuits]

Brass remains ductile over a wide range of strain rates. Your idea might hold water if the band was at cryogenic temperature.

Ahh, the plot thickens. It was cryogenically treated before that became a thing.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Brass remains ductile over a wide range of strain rates. Your idea might hold water if the band was at cryogenic temperature.

It does indeed - however while splits resulting from dentwork away from seams aren't all that common, they do crop up from time-to-time...and not necessarily on well-worked areas.
But yeah, there would have had to have been one hell of a whack under the tonehole hole to cause a crack in the ring - so we're still non the wiser.

 

[JayeNM]

Those ferrule rings have always struck me , at least on asian-made horns, as being 'sorta made of brass, sorta made of something else", quite honestly. I am always quite careful with them, they seem more brittle that, say, b sheet brass used for the body.

 

[TobyB]

Yeah, I don't much like the "flaw in the metal" theory ...

I don't much like the "bent till cracked" theory ...

I also don't like the "bad seam" theory ...

Three theories and I don't think any of us is real excited about any of them.

I have a 4th (5th?) theory based on what the picture looks like-
and for consistency, I don't like it either:

What that failure looks like is that the clamp was a little bit too small, and when really
snugged down, the stretch, combined with the effects of time, storage and use proceeded
to snap the clamp.
Which makes no sense, as the thing, made of brass,
should be able to stretch to at least 110% of its length without even showing any effects
of elongation.
Unless it's cast.
And it had an internal flaw, or there's something on
the horn itself that caused a surface deformity that acted as a stress raiser.

(If it was grey cast iron, that would be in the realm of possibility. Brass? nah...)

It'd be interesting to see pictures of the end of the broken clamp once it's replaced...

t
crystals. It's always the crystals.

 

[Pete Thomas]

What that failure looks like is that the clamp was a little bit too small,

But this is a Yamaha clamp that came with the instrument new, Yamaha don’t supply them too small.

 

[Pete Thomas]

@bbryce88 you’ve had some responses from some extremely knowledgable experts here. I wonder did you ever get this fixed? And most of all, find out what caused it?