Tech/maintenance Question, my saxophone is cracked

[bbryce88]

I noticed my tenor sax has a small crack in it near where the model number is located. Will this in any way affect the performance of the saxophone? I bought this saxophone new around 2005. I'm looking to sell it. What do you think it's worth with the crack in it? Please, see the attached photos. Thank you!

 

[SaxBoss]

Is that an honest crack?? 🙈

Looks like the usual band clamp slit. Can you take more photos from different angles?

 

[turf3]

That's a crack.

If the joint is still sealed with the usual elastomeric sealer, it could start to leak due to tiny movement between the main tube and the bow. That clamp is also intended to provide a solid mechanical joint that provides stable mounting for the bell and all the keywork. If the clamp is broken, the bell-bow assembly can move, which can cause leaks in the bell keys.

Some kind of repair is called for. There are several different possible approaches.

I wouldn't buy a horn with that clamp broken like that.

 

[Dr G]

Is that an honest crack?? 🙈

Looks like the usual band clamp slit. Can you take more photos from different angles?

Please share an image of a "usual band clamp slit". I've never seen one that looks like this.

 

[LostCircuits]

Hard to say what this is, if it is just a surface marring, i.e. a crack in the lacquer with subsequent oxidation, it may be ok to leave it, if it is a crack in the clamp itself, it needs to be fixed. Selling the instrument like this ... yes, you could label it as project horn, anything else would be an invitation to disaster.

 

[Dr G]

Sure looks like a crack - held in place either by friction or adhesive.

 

[Targa]

How would that get that crack in it?
If it was dropped wouldn't it have got massive dents before that happened?

 

[Dr G]

How would that get that crack in it?
If it was dropped wouldn't it have got massive dents before that happened?

More likely that the part was bent while off the horn, then forced back to shape and installed. Localized deformation weakened the part and led to its ultimate failure after time under tension (creep).

 

[LostCircuits]

How would that get that crack in it?
If it was dropped wouldn't it have got massive dents before that happened?

Stick it in the freezer and watch what happens. If the brace is made from a different material and in addition may have been overtightened, this is what could happen.

 

[bbryce88]

How would that get that crack in it?
If it was dropped wouldn't it have got massive dents before that happened?

I have no idea. It hasn't been touched in 20 years. I've never dropped it. Other than that little crack it looks quite pristine. There are a few light scratches but it looks great otherwise.

 

[bbryce88]

likely that the part was bent while off the horn, then forced back to shape and installed. Localized deformation weakened the part and led to its ultimate failure after time under tension (creep)

That makes the most sense. The sax is in great condition otherwise. It wasn't used a lot and hasn't been touched since I graduated high school 18 years ago. It was well cared for. Do you think I should sell it as is, or get it repaired before selling? I'm being transparent about it with potential buyers. But I'm curious if it's worth me getting it repaired and then trying to sell it. I live in Houston. Do you think most shops would be happy to give me their opinion? Who makes repairs like this? I'm no musician and know nothing about this.

 

[Dr G]

Stick it in the freezer and watch what happens. If the brace is made from a different material and in addition may have been overtightened, this is what could happen.

Yeah, it's a quandary. Thermal expansion is an interesting take, but would require a substantial difference in CTE as well as an extreme temperature swing - greater than I imagine could occur in normal conditions. If it were susceptible to overtightening, I would imagine it to be a more common failure mode.

It would be interesting to remove the screw to see if the part is actually failed. If the band is made in two parts, it could be replaced without further disassembly. If it is a one-piece assembly, then it would require removing the bow from the body to insert the new part. I don't know this particular horn.

@JayeNM Do you know this model's body band configuration?

 

[Dr G]

That makes the most sense. The sax is in great condition otherwise. It wasn't used a lot and hasn't been touched since I graduated high school 18 years ago. It was well cared for. Do you think I should sell it as is, or get it repaired before selling? I'm being transparent about it with potential buyers. But I'm curious if it's worth me getting it repaired and then trying to sell it. I live in Houston. Do you think most shops would be happy to give me their opinion?

Yes, most shops that I have used over the years usually do estimates for free.

You'll have a better idea of the path forward once you have more concrete information about the cost of repair.

 

[bbryce88]

Yes, most shops that I have used over the years usually do estimates for free.

You'll have a better idea of the path forward once you have more concrete information about the cost of repair.

Cool, thanks for the info! The band isn't wobbly or loose. I'll take it in to a store and get it checked out. I'm bummed out about it because I thought I was going to be selling a tenor sax in great condition. It hasn't been used enough to have damage like this.

 

[mizmar]

It hasn't been touched in 20 years

Where's it been stored? Has it been transported?

 

[Dr G]

Where's it been stored? Has it been transported?

What are you proposing as a failure mechanism? Please don't say "fatigue".

 

[mizmar]

What are you proposing as a failure mechanism? Please don't say "fatigue".

Well - unlikely, sure - repeated cooling/warming cycling.

So, yeah, I'm gonna say it...

But Huston? I don't suppose it's likely to see temperature extremes.

 

[bbryce88]

Well - unlikely, sure - repeated cooling/warming cycling.

So, yeah, I'm gonna say it...

But Huston? I don't suppose it's likely to see temperature extremes.

My mom lives near Oklahoma City and it was stored in her garage. So that is a logical explanation, too. It got down to almost 0 degrees this year. It's been in her garage for the last 3 years. She does have a heater in the garage but I'm sure it still gets cold in there at times.

 

[Dr G]

Well - unlikely, sure - repeated cooling/warming cycling.

So, yeah, I'm gonna say it...

OK, I'm game for a gedanken. Let's consider a few thoughts.

1) What temperature ranges might be possible? If these are typical for everyone in a similar climate, why is this the first time we are witnessing this failure mechanism? Given that the saxophone forums have existed across the world for decades, if this were a failure mode commensurate with "normal" environmental conditions, why is this not more prevalent?

2) If temperatures are sufficient to cause stresses due to mismatch of CTE, why is the failure only at the body band? Why are there no other metallurgical failures at less robust mechanical interfaces? Or is the body band indeed the weak link of the instrument? Why are there not also failures at posts? If high temperatures, why are there not pads falling out?

3) Brass/brass CTEs will not vary much for slight variations in composition, so stresses will be low - even for large temperature excursions, hence we are in high cycle fatigue. If CTE is the culprit and temperatures are diurnal, how many thousands of years would it take for fatigue failure?

Yeah... My money is on a bent part that was stressed prior to assembly. If the failure turns out to be a one-piece band that failed opposite its opening, I'll double my wager.

 

[mizmar]

Obviously.

But if there was a preexisting flaw and then temperature cycles.

We'd break even.