Saxophones Pork Tales: Saxophone Repair DIY Adventures.

Life around the barn.

Tales from a pig that likes to stick his nose into everything.

Paint that S. How difficult could it be ?

1) Search the net.
2) Find the color.
3) Order color.
4) Study task on University of YouTube, aka; For destruction by DYI presented by pro tech.

Do the cleaning & prep.

Paint and cleanup / detail the edges with hard cotton swabs. Sounds easy……

Yeah tha guy Matt makes it look easy.
Anyone remember your first experience cooking bacon crispy while still in the frying pan !

 

[thomsax]

Imperial measurements are better, more ‘meaningful’ and mistakes are far less likely to be made.

My verktum/inch is a lttle bit small than a real carpenter. One "verktum" is 24,74 mm instead of an ordinary inch which is 25,4 mm.

The swedish "verktum" 1/12" is the width of a carpenter (male) thumb.
One swedish "finger with" is 1/16 fot is 18,55 mm of a carpenter (male) index finger.

I like it. No meterstock ... trust you own eyes and fingers. It's like cooking or playing by ear.

 

[thomsax]

4" = 101.6mm ?

Yes.

4" x 4" becomes 95 x 95 mm after planed and edged.

 

[cappers]

My verktum/inch is a lttle bit small than a real carpenter. One "verktum" is 24,74 mm instead of an ordinary inch which is 25,4 mm.

The swedish "verktum" 1/12" is the width of a carpenter (male) thumb.
One swedish "finger with" is 1/16 fot is 18,55 mm of a carpenter (male) index finger.

I like it. No meterstock ... trust you own eyes and fingers. It's like cooking or playing by ear.

🙂 The ancient art of measurement using the body...foot, yard, cubit, span, finger/digit, fathom.
3 barleycorns = 1 thumb or 24.74-25.4 mm (Swedish)

 

[Targa]

My verktum/inch is a lttle bit small than a real carpenter. One "verktum" is 24,74 mm instead of an ordinary inch which is 25,4 mm.

The swedish "verktum" 1/12" is the width of a carpenter (male) thumb.
One swedish "finger with" is 1/16 fot is 18,55 mm of a carpenter (male) index finger.

I like it. No meterstock ... trust you own eyes and fingers. It's like cooking or playing by ear.

That’s where the English term ‘rule of thumb’ comes from.

 

[PigSquealer]

A few words about pads…

This will be a series of multiple posts on pad technology. Early 1900’s onwards.
General information for a basic understanding. Answers to questions I’m frequently asked. How do I choose…..

 

[PigSquealer]

A brief introduction.

The modern pads made today are not the same as a hundred years ago. Can they work ? Yes, but a good understanding is wise for success.

The engineered “system” has changed as well. The tone socket, key fulcrum, regulation system, glues, booster options and pad construction are now more refined.

A ton of pad development took place from 1920 to early 1930’s. Buescher, Conn, Holton and Selmer being amongst the earliest to introduce new pad technologies.

They all worked with an understanding of the complete system.

 

[PigSquealer]

What Aldophe Sax exactly used I don’t know. Cork or fish skin covered felt I think maybe. Clarinet pad technology of mid 1800’s ?

 

[PigSquealer]

Early 1900’s pads were basically a sewn leather sock drawn around a compressed felt round disk. Pressed or ironed flat finish. A simple stitch in middle to prevent sagging.

White goat kid leather was commonly used.

The diameter size was measured in 1/32nds of inch. The pads labeled for size on some brands. 63 (63/32”) was B, Bb on assembly line. Each sax maker had different thicknesses. Some with different thicknesses within a single sax.

Best I know there were no in-house “standards” regarding thickness. 1846-1915~20. I’m not an authority or fact documenting historian here.
I’m just a fellow sax enthusiast sharing what little knowledge I can pass along.

The system final seal was the combination of spongy wool and soft leather contacting the socket ( tone hole, chimney). View this as a flexible compression contact seal. Spongy at the fingertips. Possibly inconsistent day to day.

The thickness is extreme compared to a modern hard felt pad. Modern normal thickness range is 4mm/.160 to 4.5mm/.180.

Almost 6.5mm in total thickness seems insane.

 

[PigSquealer]

Installation method for sealing was something glued in the cup works. The middle picture above and these below shows three different methods of applying the shellac. (These were removed from the same1916 Martin; EDIT, no they were not)
The shellac was typically dissolved into a thick syrup mix with denatured alcohol. Brushed into cup then heated to evaporate the alcohol.

A heavily set impression was common. The pads could compress an additional 1mm or more after initial contact. This flexibility also helps make the regulation not so critical.

 

[PigSquealer]

A modern replacement pad will work at 4mm/.160 to 4.5mm/.180.

How can this be ???

Remove 2mm of fluff and make it a firm stable surface.
Tightening of the tolerances.
Keeping in mind that change in the “system” needs to be fully understood.
The pad to socket contact.
The fulcrum, touch feel.
The action fit.
The spring settings.
The regulation.
The key height.
The metals used.
The engineered stability / flex change.

All small stuff.
Yeah, it’s just a pad.

More to follow.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Early 1900’s pads were basically a sewn leather sock drawn around a compressed felt round disk. Pressed or ironed flat finish. A simple stitch in middle to prevent sagging.

White goat kid leather was commonly used.

I've made a fair few sets of these. Talk about a labour of love.
I made sets for some horns that John Harle used for the incidental music for a radio play about the life of Sax, as seen through the eyes of his horns. I would have enjoyed it were it not for the fact that I vividly remembered how much of a faff it was to make the pads. And set them.

 

[PigSquealer]

I've made a fair few sets of these. Talk about a labour of love.
I made sets for some horns that John Harle used for the incidental music for a radio play about the life of Sax, as seen through the eyes of his horns. I would have enjoyed it were it not for the fact that I vividly remembered how much of a faff it was to make the pads. And set them.

If love labor only paid well… we would both be neighbors of Sir Richard Branson on a private island. Hopefully you made out better than 1922 factory ready available pad sets.

And better than 1924 cost of a repad. Of course repairs were extra upon review. Could you imagine doing a repad on a bari for £18/$25 including the pads !

 

[Tuppertn]

And better than 1924 cost of a repad. Of course repairs were extra upon review. Could you imagine doing a repad on a bari for £18/$25 including the pads !

That's almost 500 bucks in 2026 dollars. Seems pretty close to me.

I think it means you're really old when all the yesterdays look way better than all the tomorrows.

 

[PigSquealer]

That's almost 500 bucks in 2026 dollars. Seems pretty close to me.

View attachment 34012

I think it means you're really old when all the yesterdays look way better than all the tomorrows.

Yesterday’s loaf of bread is looking better by the second 🤪. Bread next week could be made from Soylent Green🤢.

Fascinating inflation calculation. What state, New Mexico?
National music chain repair services for modern student grade units is below. Today’s rates $516 would get you a COA with 10 pads changed on tenor. It’s not unusual for a quality pre 1950 tenor take 20+ hours on a repad. A marching field post 2001 YTS 23, 13-15hrs.

 

[Woodpad]

I've made a fair few sets of these. Talk about a labour of love.

Iwan Müller is seen as the inventor of the kid leather felt pads for clarinets, in case you want to thank him. Pierret and Sax are both associated with clarinets. 3 mm thick pads fit on an early Pierret saxophone. I don't know if this is similar to the early sax saxophone of Sax but I got the idea that somewhere the thickness of clarinet and saxophone pads separated almost unnoticed.

Yesterday’s loaf of bread is looking better by the second 🤪. Bread next week could be made from Soylent Green🤢.

Plinius jr or Plinius sr already said that if you want a good loaf of hread you have to bake it yourself.

 

[PigSquealer]

Iwan Müller is seen as the inventor of the kid leather felt pads for clarinets, in case you want to thank him. Pierret and Sax are both associated with clarinets. 3 mm thick pads fit on an early Pierret saxophone. I don't know if this is similar to the early sax saxophone of Sax but I got the idea that somewhere the thickness of clarinet and saxophone pads separated almost unnoticed.

How early is early Pierret ? Do both the sax and clarinet us 3mm?
It wouldn’t be a surprise that a maker would use common parts.

 

[Targa]

That's almost 500 bucks in 2026 dollars. Seems pretty close to me.

View attachment 34012

I think it means you're really old when all the yesterdays look way better than all the tomorrows.

In the UK £25 becomes £1326.32.
You’ve got nothing to complain about.

 

[PigSquealer]

Not that it’s highly important, but I spent a little more time reviewing in detail the 1910-1927 pile.
I’ve cut a few apart it see what development if any was visible. A big yes ! Keep thinking small and things changed slowly.

Two samples from above posted pictures I stated incorrectly.
***These were removed from the same1916 Martin*** EDIT, no they were not.
The sets a from a 1916 Martin and a 1922 York.
Obvious first observation is the difference in shellac application. York on top with a light consistent smear around the perimeter. Martin with a heavy serving reasonably well kept off the leather. Two distinctively different techniques.

The York has a wide stitch, thick thread once around stitch. Out back it’s tied off with a knot.
Mr Martin has a narrow sitcth, thin thread twice around stitch. Out back looks like the stitch loop locks one end. Finish tie off by running up to right of “52”. Into the leather, down & out felt back. No knott. They knew the shellac would secure it. The extra shellac in middle may have also reduced leakage through the stitch and pad itself. Martin cups are very flat. Come to think of it the York is very concave. So Doh!, they had to be attached by the outermost area.
All silk thread on both.

These two below are from another 3rd & 4th unknown maker. Similar in OD size. This showing a large difference in stitch spacing. This appears to affect the closure control

Can you imagine a 6.5mm thick pad needing a few shims ?

 

[PigSquealer]

For the scientists in the peanut gallery I have taken measurements.

Flexibility measurement. 100% soft taco

Seat cushion Durometer. 16.5° very soft

Modern makers range from low 40°(soft) to 60°(hard)

Yes a #64 is 64/32” or 2” or 50,80mm.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Iwan Müller is seen as the inventor of the kid leather felt pads for clarinets, in case you want to thank him. Pierret and Sax are both associated with clarinets. 3 mm thick pads fit on an early Pierret saxophone. I don't know if this is similar to the early sax saxophone of Sax but I got the idea that somewhere the thickness of clarinet and saxophone pads separated almost unnoticed.

I did a lot of work on period clarinets - which ran the gamut from plain leather sheets, through stuffed pads to pewter plugs (the world's first 'self seating' pad) and beyond. By the time Sax produced his first sax the semi-stuffed and stitched pad was old hat; they were used on opheclides. On some examples I had to make pads that were the size of side-plates.