Saxophones Played a TJ Signature Custom Raw today...wow!

[cappers]

23 > 25 for me

In terms of slickness, resistance or tone?
For me the 23 is a tad 'darker' and 'rounder', the 25 slicker under the fingers, both as easy to blow.

Get my 25 back tomorrow now the neck leak is fixed, new cork too. I can do a back-to-back test .

 

[lig]

IMO for a difference in sound:

Mouthpiece/Reed changes > vs instrument changes

Not by a small amount either. 🙂

 

[Pete Thomas]

For me the 23 is a tad 'darker' and 'rounder', the 25 slicker under the fingers, both as easy to blow.

My hat is definitely off to you for noticing those differences. I certainly couldn't.

 

[ellinas]

Whenever I played a tenor with a high F sharp and without it I notirce 2 main differences.
Without high F sharp it's a bit lighter... and it feels a bit less pointy and the upper octave a bit easier.
Is it the mass difference? Is it the extra tonehole? is there some tonehole placement difference? I honestly don't know.
But I felt this difference everytime i play the same model with and without high f sharp.
And I always pick the one without it.

 

[cappers]

My hat is definitely off to you for noticing those differences. I certainly couldn't.

Teacher and MrsCappers noticed it too, and I don't think they were humouring me. Basically they sound the same especially down low but the 25 seems brighter, more cutting especially higher up.

As mentioned on another thread, when I put the Vito neck on the 25 it takes that bright edge away. (Not starting a debate on necks and sound, been there before!)

If I place both necks facing each other so their tips touch, tenons on the same level surface, the Vito is about 1mm higher.

The neck receiver on the 25 has been odd since I got it. Tight intial fit but it takes a couple of full turns of the screw to nip it up. When tightened the gap at the top of the expansion slit was narrower than at the bottom. When tightened the neck could be moved very slightly to and fro. On removal there was a film of water beween the outer wall of the neck and the inner wall of the tenon. I thought a leaky neck would impact low note production, make it harder to blow and maybe stuffy, but had no problems that way.

I shall see and hear tomorrow when I get it back.

 

[ellinas]

According to Yamaha both models have the same neck.

TEACHING MATERIAL | Parts List Search System

TEACHING MATERIAL | Parts List Search System

If you could play with both saxophones the same phrase and show to us the difference it would be really neat

 

[cappers]

@ellinas
Thanks for the link to the Yamaha parts catalogue, useful and interesting.

Got the answer! Same neck as per catalogue but the Vito 23 is gold lacquer rather than the yellow brass lacquer on the 23. This of course produces a darker, deeper etc sound

I'll report back and post sound clips if I think there is a significant difference.

 

[Colin the Bear]

With any old saxophone and especially a "gigger", a build up of corrosion and detritus clinging to the verdigris, on the inside of the crook, can affect perceived tone.

A cheap endoscope has become available on eBay, that plugs into your phone. My 25's were disgusting. A bottle brush and some white vinegar sorted them. I do hope that's not how they make brown vinegar.

I'm anticipating a great improvement with the neck joint now not leaking. 👍

 

[cappers]

With any old saxophone and especially a "gigger", a build up of corrosion and detritus clinging to the verdigris, on the inside of the crook, can affect perceived tone.

Are you inferring I have dirty plumbing sir? 😉

Being a former microbiologist and somewhat OCD, when i first got the 25 I put a cork in the mpc end of the crook and filled it with vinegar, let it soak then scrubbed the bore with a test-tube brush. It wasn't too dirty as it happens but it felt cleaner psychologically.

Whether or not there is a change in tonality, I'm sure the 25 will sound even better after it's neck is fixed, with new neck cork and a COA 🙂

 

[ellinas]

Whether or not there is a change in tonality, I'm sure the 25 will sound even better after it's neck is fixed, with new neck cork and a COA 🙂

All horns should be judged after being fully setup. even the smallest leak can make the horn feel awkward.

 

[Pete Thomas]

For me the 23 is a tad 'darker' and 'rounder', the 25 slicker under the fingers, both as easy to blow.

Get my 25 back tomorrow now the neck leak is fixed, new cork too. I can do a back-to-back test .

My hat is definitely off to you for noticing those differences. I certainly couldn't.

My apologies, I'd forgotten the initial post and assumed here you were talking about 23 and 25 in general. But as I now realise you are talking about two specific instruments they could easily play differently if setup differently.

 

[cappers]

No need to apologise @Pete Thomas.
Easy to get lost with all my mithering and rambling!

 

[cappers]

YTS-25 back home now and is sounding lovely.

Apart from the loose receiver/neck, the high F pad was was hard and not sealing properly (I used to get the ocassional squeak which I put down to me).
New neck cork, oiled and regulation checked and now everything is nice and snug.
Bell key notes easy as pie and overall it all sounds richer and more vibrant.

I tried the Vito neck and although there was a slight difference in tone it was not as marked as before. I could hear it more than my teacher who said they sounded almost identical but maybe a bit more centered with the Vito neck. I'm not going to mess about so the Yamaha neck will stay on the 25 and the Vito neck on the Vito.

Rehearsal tonight, lookng forward to playing it.

 

[mizmar]

A well serviced saxophone sounds rich and vibrant.

Well, that's good takeaway.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Whenever I played a tenor with a high F sharp and without it I notirce 2 main differences.
Without high F sharp it's a bit lighter... and it feels a bit less pointy and the upper octave a bit easier.
Is it the mass difference? Is it the extra tonehole? is there some tonehole placement difference? I honestly don't know.
But I felt this difference everytime i play the same model with and without high f sharp.
And I always pick the one without it.

But wouldn’t they sound even better without a top F?

 

[Dr G]

YTS-25 back home now and is sounding lovely.

Apart from the loose receiver/neck, the high F pad was was hard and not sealing properly (I used to get the ocassional squeak which I put down to me).
New neck cork, oiled and regulation checked and now everything is nice and snug.
Bell key notes easy as pie and overall it all sounds richer and more vibrant.

Yummy. Peak performance is a beautiful thing.

I tried the Vito neck and although there was a slight difference in tone it was not as marked as before. I could hear it more than my teacher who said they sounded almost identical but maybe a bit more centered with the Vito neck. I'm not going to mess about so the Yamaha neck will stay on the 25 and the Vito neck on the Vito.

Now that you've experienced a properly fit neck, perhaps you can also appreciate that necks from two horns have a poor likelihood of fitting both horns well.

Rehearsal tonight, lookng forward to playing it.

Enjoy!

 

[Grumps]

But wouldn’t they sound even better without a top F?

I've got two horns without a top F or even a top E. They sound better to me than anything else out there these days.

 

[Pete Thomas]

So the more notes you add (at the top) the worse it sounds? Or at the bottom, I’ve also heard people say baritones with low A sound worse.

Best to have a keyless horn then, why clutter it up with all those notes?

 

[Zasterz]

So the more notes you add (at the top) the worse it sounds? Or at the bottom, I’ve also heard people say baritones with low A sound worse.

Best to have a keyless horn then, why clutter it up with all those notes?

Some people definitely would sound better on a tube that didn’t play any notes.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Some people definitely would sound better on a tube that didn’t play any notes.

Well it has to play at least one note. The big question might be whether it's a wrong note or not. Or an avoid note.