Saxophones Played a TJ Signature Custom Raw today...wow!

[rhysonsax]

I vary rarely see any Rampone horns (apart from the bari I have). Which is a bit odd because I've had a fair few Borganis come my way.
I think it's fair to say that handmade horns often exhibit some 'variability' in build quality but I'll reserve judgement until such times that I've been able to strip one down on the bench.

You had my R&C gold-plated saxello-style (semi-curved) in when I first bought it (used). That must have been 15 years ago or maybe more. I think you said that it had some flamboyant Italian traits but also did comment on the build quality.

I went back and forth between that R&C saxello and some of my other sops (Yanagisawa SC991, Selmer Serie III, Buffet Crampon S1, old Conn) and the Rampone is my favourite by quite a significant margin now that I have found a mouthpiece that works really well with it. It has a lovely rich sound, good ergonomics, good intonation and is looking pristine after years of playing.

Rhys

PS My favourite tenor is the Andy Sheppard Signature model, which is a limited edition of the Signature Custom RAW with various enhancements. I love this instrument.

 

[Stephen Howard]

You had my R&C gold-plated saxello-style (semi-curved) in when I first bought it (used). That must have been 15 years ago or maybe more. I think you said that it had some flamboyant Italian traits but also did comment on the build quality.

I just had a look at my 'website notes' folder - where I jot down the details that go towards building a review. Sure enough, I have the notes for your saxello.

"Shoddy build in places. Lots of scratch marks on body, around pillarbases..on the crook plate, on keys."
"low B key foot not well designed"
"psuedo point screws, already a little play in some keys, no way adjust"

 

[rhysonsax]

And "plays like a dream" ?

Rhys

 

[Stephen Howard]

And "plays like a dream" ?

Rhys

Hah!
My notes say:

"Very slight growl on top C. Tuning good. Tone warm - even throughout. Not distinctive enough to be truly 'vintage'...could get the same sound on another sop with a wide piece."

But...that would have been a 'sketch' based on barely a couple of minutes playing - and may even have been written before I worked on the horn. Sometimes those notes stand with further playing/tweaking, sometimes they don't.
What matters, though, is that it's now working properly - and you like it.

 

[JayeNM]

As an aside I played both the 23 and the 25, some scales and a bit of Tenor Madness, which I thought appropriate! I then asked my teacher to play them and he agreed that the Vito was 'warmer' and 'fuller' and lacked the brighter edge of the '25.

I have always understood a 23 and 25 to be the same body and neck specs, so this is a bit of news if both you and your teacher felt there was a tonality difference. The neck thing might cause that, or just a few leaks you are playing through without realizing it.

But if those are attended to and the tonality is still different, then that would suggest something in design changed, somewhere (neck, tube, bow)...

 

[Colin the Bear]

A well regulated horn is a pleasure and a joy to play and to own.

I suspect the difference some less experienced players find between horns is the state of regulation.

Leaks sap tone, interfere with intonation and cause squeaks.

Any time I find my 25's not completely satisfying me, I change the reed and if that doesn't do it, I get out the leak light. Maybe it would be cheaper to reverse that process. 🤔

The alto is getting a little tired and I'm very tempted by the TJ Evo. My heart wants a Yani but the TJ would be easier on my wallet, and to live with.

I couldn't stand a raw horn. My spit and sweat are too corrosive, to mention nothing of the Cider. 🍎🍐🍏

 

[Grumps]

... to mention nothing of the Cider. 🍎🍐🍏

Pikey?

 

[lig]

I’ve had (and still have) a good number of tenors over the years. Attended NAMM last year and this year and played a good number of them.

Supreme, SX-90R, 82Z, R&C Solista, Chateau 92% copper, a couple of Cannonballs and a few I’m sure I forgot to mention but my favorite last year was the TJ Raw XS.

It was well set up - very responsive. I prefer a free blowing horn over a resistant horn. I loved the sound as well. Had a very slightly bright mp last year (Chameleon)

Good thing there are different horns for different tastes. 🙂

I won’t be buying one as I’m really happy with my tenor (Ishimori in silver) and backup (Tenor Madness Session) but would be happy to be playing a TJ Raw if it plays as well as the one at NAMM last year.

 

[Dr G]

A well regulated horn is a pleasure and a joy to play and to own.

Especially if it is a tenor.

 

[Targa]

Pikey?

In the UK that is one of those words that after possibly hundreds of years use since turnpikes were invented people have decided to be offended by.
What is the USA use of it?

 

[Pete Thomas]

In the UK that is one of those words that after possibly hundreds of years use since turnpikes were invented people have decided to be offended by.

I don’t think people decided to be offended. It is just an offensive word for some. I’m quite easy going but prefer not to be referred to as a pikey, although I am not unproud of my ancestry. I’m not aware it was ever not offensive.

 

[Targa]

I don’t think people decided to be offended. It is just an offensive word for some. I’m quite easy going but prefer not to be referred to as a pikey, although I am not unproud of my ancestry. I’m not aware it was ever not offensive.

Probably for me it was the way terms were used for everyone from across the world to the people next door with the context usually being neutral rather than derogatory or even complimentary.
Then such use was private while now it gets put onto the internet.

 

[cappers]

I have always understood a 23 and 25 to be the same body and neck specs, so this is a bit of news if both you and your teacher felt there was a tonality difference. The neck thing might cause that, or just a few leaks you are playing through without realizing it.

But if those are attended to and the tonality is still different, then that would suggest something in design changed, somewhere (neck, tube, bow)...

@JayeNM Me too, that's why I've been boring folk on here asking is it me or the horn.
The neck tenon has always been an issue. When it's fixed I'll see if the tonality has changed.

 

[cappers]

From what I understand, symptoms of a neck leak might be difficulty in producing clean notes, especially low notes, and a feeling of resistance or stuffiness when playing.

I haven't noticed any deterioration in intonation or difficulty in blowing the low or other notes on the 25, and it feels as free-blowing as ever.

The internet in general and especially AI are not always good sources of info but for fun I asked Duck Duck Go's AI Assist - "Does a YTS-23 have a different tone to a YTS-25?" - and the answer, with the caveat 'Auto-generated based on listed sources. May contain inaccuracies' was:

Yes, the Yamaha YTS-23 and YTS-25 can have different tonal qualities, with the YTS-25 generally offering a slightly brighter sound due to its design features, including the addition of a high F# key. However, both models are known for their rich and full-bodied tones, making them suitable for various music genres.​

• YTS-23: Known for its robust construction and ease of play, it produces a consistent sound suitable for various music genres, including jazz and classical. It is often praised for its durability and reliability, making it a favorite among beginners and educators.
• YTS-25: This model features an additional high F# key, which can enhance tonal flexibility. Players often find it offers a slightly brighter sound compared to the YTS-23, making it suitable for more advanced techniques and styles.

(Sources cited: equipboard.com, dawkes.co.uk, shwoodwind.co.uk (!) headwindmusic.co.uk and saxgourmet.com)

I'll leave it there, have hijacked my own thread!

BTW much as I admired the TJ RAW, I'm happy with what I've got.

 

[thomsax]

We should keep in mind that YTS 23 can be +45 years? I think the YTS 25 was introduced in the mid 90's. + 30 years? Some of these saxes are used a lot.

I liked both the YTS 23 and YTS 25 I played.

I've been looking for a new better sax. To be frank, a new sax is not going to make me a better player. Maybe marginally better??

 

[Grumps]

What is the USA use of it?

Just came across the term years ago as pikey cider in some sort of English Tramp O' Claus thing posted online back in the early days of AOL. I likened it to what here in the States might be known as hillbilly moonshine... which I of course have had over the years. Thus peaked my interest in the cider.

Back to the TJ... are these horns sold in the States?

 

[cappers]

Back to the TJ... are these horns sold in the States?

Yes, Find A Dealer | Trevor James Saxophones

 

[cappers]

We should keep in mind that YTS 23 can be +45 years? I think the YTS 25 was introduced in the mid 90's. + 30 years? Some of these saxes are used a lot.

I liked both the YTS 23 and YTS 25 I played.

Enquries indicate my Vito YTS-23 (501xxx) was made ~ 2000. Yamaha can't find the exact date for my YTS-25 (007xxx) but suggest it was between Jul 1993 and Nov 1995. My YAS-25 (876xx) was made in June 1998. Getting on bit but the YAS and the Vito are A1 almost like new and barely used.

The YTS-25 has been well used but in good shape, lacquer wear on palm and some pinkie keys, the strap hook ring and where it's rubbed against clothes, and some minor scratches. No dents or dings.

I like it very much (even if the TJ swayed me a little).

 

[cappers]

@Trigger Don't tempt me I'm easily swayed!

I mentioned it to Mrs Cappers and she told me to spoil myself, I'll be dead sooner than later

I'm in East Sussex a few miles outside Brighton.

Thank you.

 

[Grumps]

Yes, Find A Dealer | Trevor James Saxophones

Chuck Levins then. Been a long time since I was in there. My father's old bassist worked there for many, many years. That means they may have been at the Symposium and I just missed them. I frequent the Symposium vendor room less and less over the years, and this past January I was only looking for the Connfirmation. Maybe next year I might find one.