Palm Key variations!

[frank_johnson]

I'm working through 'Moonglow'(in The Complete Saxophone Player) to improve my reading above the lines. On the 5th bar it goes to top D. My fingering chart tells me this is played using the octave key and palm key 3. I can get the note when played on its own, struggling to keep the alto veering to the right, but find it impossible to do in a succession of notes.
However, my ears tell me that I am getting top D by playing B with the octave key and at the same time using palm pad 2 (the top one). The sax is a Buffet S1.
Any help appreciated!

 

[chris_j]

Have a look at this http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/sax/fing_sax.html to make sure you are using the right palm key

Chris

 

[frank_johnson]

Hi Chris,
thanks for that. I think, with practice, I will master the D palm pad, but I am convinced that I am getting the high D by pressing octave/B/Eb palm simultaneously. Perhaps, covering the B flattens the Eb to D???
With regard to the D palm pad, when all fingers are off the sax, I can't seem to hold it still as I operate the D. Perhaps I need to alter the position of the right hand thumb grip: or perhaps I'm just cack handed!!! :laugh:
Frank

 

[Linky Lee]

It does take a little getting used too.

I can't tell you how I compensate for the sideways kick as it's a natural thing now.

I've got my sax out and been playing loads of D's.

It seems that most of the time there isn't a kick, if I do give it a whack for it to move right then it doesn't move in my mouth as it's resting on my right thigh, with it out front though, it's more of a problem as it will twist to the right.

I think it should be solved by learning how hard to hit that D key, it seems to me that you're being too heavy handed with it. Or maybe your springs are very tight around there. Many new saxophones arrive sprung too tightly.

It shouldn't really be kicking off to one side.

 

[frank_johnson]

Hi Linky, thanks for your thoughts. I am probably hitting the D too hard, but for a vintage sax, the action does need a lot of pressure generally. Everything seems to be in good order, but before January it had not been played for 10 years.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much for the little time I've spent on the highest notes!

 

[Linky Lee]

keep at it, you'll find a system that works for you.

I'm not sure how you 'hit' the palm keys but I make contact with them by angling my wrist back and therefore bringing the palm forward, or if you pretend the thumb is fixed by a ball joint or something the bottom of your wrist pivots around it towards the saxophone.

I've seen people 'slap' at the palm keys and struggle before. Be gentle and treat them nicely, they're your friends.

I'm sure you'll work out what you're doing, find a solution and it will be natural soon enough.
I think I hit the palm keys on the sop too hard still, haven't quite got the hang of them yet (above D/Eb area)

 

[chris_j]

Frank

There are alternative fingerings for D, and one is the octave key, plus the top (Eb) palm key, the left index finger B key, but also the right hand middle side key (C).

My first comment was for concern about you describing using "palm key 3". I just wanted to be sure that of the the 3 left hand palm keys you are using the middle one (as they go up the instrument), which is the D.

If the palm keys do not feel right, or you are catching them when playing other notes, then try rotating the crook in the neck tenon and play with the crook at a different angle to the body. For example if you rotate the crook a few degrees clockwise (looking down at it) it might swing the palm keys into a more comfortable position to only hit them when you want them.

While you shouldn't grip the mouthpiece with your teeth, it might help to use a patch on the mouthpiece, as it may give that little bit more friction, or act as a stable reference point, to stop the sideways movement when you hit the palm keys - just a thought.

Do you have a teacher? - Always a good move to have one!

Chris

 

[Bobby G]

For me, if the palm keys are at the right height, i.e. only just below your hand so the movement needed to operate them is minimal, the bearings are lubricated and the springs are quite light it takes very little effort to work them. Consequently, the horn doesn't kick to the right.

Cheers, Bob

 

[frank_johnson]

Thanks again all of you. My heart leapt Chris, when you mentioned alternate fingerings and NO I don't have a teacher. Being a language teacher myself and to quote my wife, 'a bit of a loose cannon', I hate the formality of average instrument lessons as occasionally experienced. On the other hand, finding someone a bit special like a session musician usually involves quite a bit of cash, so for now I'll rely on you lot to share your experiences. This has got to be one of the best sites ever!!

 

[Saxlicker]

Frank,
Does it happen if you play a scale and get as high as using palm keys as well?
This is the first point to iron it out. It should also develop your skill for not pushing the sax aside and you eventually become acustomed to what the pitch should be before you hit the D palm key...

If the pushing persists you might also try not blowing as you finger the notes of the song or scale. You know, break it down a bit...allowing you to concentrate more on controlling the shift to the palm keys.
Sounds basic but I find things like this good for moving into second nature mode!

 

[frank_johnson]

Thanks for your comments too Swifty.
_______________________________
Saxplayers don't blow their own trumpet. :laugh:

 

[frank_johnson]

Problem solved, thanks to your help! I've moved the neck further to the left, rotated the mouthpiece slightly to 2 o'clock and I am pointing the bottom of the sax towards my right hip.
This has done the trick and I can now use all the palm keys while the sax is steady as a rock.
____________________-
"Stupid boy!"

 

[chris_j]

That's excellent news, thanks for posting update!

Its only a bit of practice before you will flick the right pressure on the levers, and things will flow without having to worry about the instrument moving.

So enjoy playing......