Newbie questions on transposing

[Patrick]

Hi all.

Under the shield of 'No question too stupid' I have a couple regarding transposing...

1) Is it realy as simple as swapping the notes of one scale for the notes on an other?

2) If there is a quick explantation could someone tell me what a major sixth is?

Any answers appreciated.

 

[Bobby G]

1. Pretty much, yes. If you are playing and using the scale of C major, when you transpose to G major you would use the G major scale.

2. It's the interval between the root note of a major scale and the sixth note of the same scale, for instance C D E F G A B C. The sixth note of a major scale is also the root note of it's relative minor, A minor being the relative minor of C major.

 

[Patrick]

Bobby G you're a star.

Thanks

 

[spike]

Bob's answered your questions - I thought I might add:

Using numbers for the notes is often an excellent way to make transposing easier. Thinking of the notes of any major scale from 1 to 7 (from C to B in C major as in Bob's example) you can apply that numeric matrix to any other major scale. When flats and sharps occur (accidentals) you simply flatten or sharpen the number - e.g. b3 or #6 or b7.

 

[Patrick]

Nice one Spike, I'll remember that one.

 

[losaavedra]

Hope it's ok to join in on this thread because I am still confused by this transposition business ... especially in written music. I'll try and explain where my problems lie:
1. If some music is written in the treble clef, with a G clef symbol at the l.h. end of the stave, and a note is written as 'middle C' for (for example) piano ... then why is that note (played 'six-fingers-down on an alto' per the sax fingering charts) called 'low C' when it comes out as Bb when sounded?
2. Is the convention to write sax music in the G clef or 'some other clef' ... if so what clef would that be? And can one be sure somehow about what notes (i.e. concert pitch notes) are supposed to result just from looking at the score. How, for example, am I supposed to interpret a version of Summertime provided in sheet form by a Spanish chum which starts off with two notes (an E and a C) with a G clef immediately to their left ... then has a weird looking symbol with a dot either side of the central stave line then a semibreve in the E position (with Am written above it) and the next bar has an 'E' crotchet (with Bb7 written above) followed by two tied quavers which might be a 'D' and a 'C' (but probably aren't ... despite being where they would be written G-clef-wise).
I hope, as part of learning the sax, to finally get a grip on reading music (after fifty-or-so years of playing various instrument 'by ear'). Thanks in advance for your patience!!!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/saxophone-transposition.html

What is generally called middle C on the piano (one ledger line below treble clef or above bass clef), is the lowest C on saxophone, hence people call it low C.

 

[losaavedra]

Thanks Pete, I read your piece and it was helpful in that it kind-of confirmed my dilemma! Last night I decided to do a finger position chart (a chopped up and re-labelled Aaron Santee!) for alto that relates only to notes in concert pitch i.e. doesn't refer to any other (transposed) note names at all. That exercise yielded 36 fingerings, starting with a C# in bass clef (I can only do the C below it with my knee in the bell!) and ranging up to G# in the treble clef. The reason I did it was that if I hear a tune I like on radio or CD or whatever I immediately turn to a keyboard (piano or the squiddy Casio SA-1 I cart about with me) and figure out which concert key the band is playing in. Given the concert key I can now go directly to the sax and 'have a go'. If the tune I'm listening to is in (say) Fm then I can instantly kick off with an F and figure out where to go from there. Same with trying to play stuff from sheet ... all the written music I have (mostly for keyboards) is written in conventional treble and bass clef ... so I can do the same with that too. I really want to get to the position where I 'see a note' and then play it, short-cutting the stuff my Mum drummed into my head in the nineteen forties when I was 6 or 7 (piano lessons!) with all the 'Good Boys Deserve Fruit Always' stuff that I've been trying to get out of my brain ever since!!! Mostly I play with myself (cheeky!) in that I do my own accompaniments on keyboards, guitar, bass, etc. and hope to get the sax in on things with a clearer idea now of which fingerings produce which notes ... weak excuse I know! Thanks for your pointer though ... amazing site this. If you think what I'm doing is going to lead to future problems please say so ... I'm very new to learning the sax.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I learnt the alto in concert pitch before I knew about transposing. It really threw me when I started to do big band gigs, yes I was playing the wrong key and had to relearn everything. However I have always been very good at transposing from concert which is very useful when playing in bands who don't have written saxophone music.

 

[justin_chune]

Yes Mike it is the convention to write music in the treble clef for all saxophones. To play your concert pitch melodies on the alto play them up a major sixth, in the new key, of course. This is more convenient than reading them down a minor third as they often go to low. Also, a C played on an alto will sound as an A at concert pitch. The weird sign with the dots after it, is a repeat symbol.