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Saxophones New Saxophones - Goldington

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
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5,104
David, I think you missed post #6? Peter, I don't think Lynden is claiming they're British, it's just my title here which was much to do with Lynden's brave step to go seek out a manufacturer and "market" his horns here, albeit mostly to his students it seems.

This seems a similar set up to what Becky does at Jericho horns, albeit she's marketing them more generally. And that's an excellent student horn. Are Jericho British? Yes, they're a British brand made in China.

It may be that someone equally as fervent as Roberto Buttus heads up the design shop for whoever makes these and over time Lynden may ask for tweaks too. Certainly the instant Lynden switched to either of his altos from his MkVI I could hear the brighter, buzzier, tone of the Goldington but what student really wants to pay 6-10 times as much for a MkVI?

I guess we'll never hear a Sequoia vs. Goldington play-off, unless someone fancies a trip to Bedford?
 

David Roach

Senior Member
Subscriber
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658
David, I think you missed post #6? Peter, I don't think Lynden is claiming they're British, it's just my title here which was much to do with Lynden's brave step to go seek out a manufacturer and "market" his horns here, albeit mostly to his students it seems..........
I'm a little confused @DavidUK, I did read read post #6 and I don't think I have said anything in relation to these saxes being British or not (well, of course they aren't, but then Sequoia and Lupifaro aren't Italian either, but I'm not going to argue semantics!)

but what student really wants to pay 6-10 times as much for a MkVI?
I agree entirely, and I thought I had made that clear in my post. My point is that nothing coming out of China or Taiwan has yet held a candle to the established big 4 manufacturers (or should that be big 3 now). My point is to urge those who can manage to afford a better instrument to do so.

I guess we'll never hear a Sequoia vs. Goldington play-off, unless someone fancies a trip to Bedford?
Not me and not at the present time :), but yes, it would be at least educational and he seems like a good bloke.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
Messages
1,993
Id like to hear some reviews of them from people that arent necessarily "invested" in them.
We have all heard the "these are incredible" claims from people invested in a venture into something before then 6 months time they are getting awful reviews....
There's THAT....and (just as importantly)...there's hearing reviews from new buyers several months down the road from the day they actually purchased and started playing one.

The internet is so riddled with glowing reviews and threads of new, budget-priced asian horns which are "really great"...only, 2 years later, folks having bever hear dof these brands again and...those glowing threads dying and sinking to page 10 of a forum's archives....after a few months or a year.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
Messages
1,993
Here's his ebay links:



I wonder if he has any students on here?
THIS is a bit of a dangerous thing to do really, I mean...marketers use the terms clone, replica, copy, 'identical'....all the time. But when pressed, will revise or fall back on terms such as 'modeled after', designed in the spirit of", or (when cornered by a particularly inquisitive player) will admit that 'well, a few things were changed'....etc, etc....

Commonly, as in 90%+ of the time, when an asian manufacturer/factory has produced a 'clone' or 'replica'....and these are being sold for quite cheap....the factory will certainly not have produced a true replica. Because of course, to reach the desired price point....compromises in specifications need to be made.

A REPLICA means only ONE things (as does a CLONE): The body, neck, keywork specifications are IDENTICAL to the horn they are claiming as its model.

...there is ZERO wiggle room here IF marketing chooses to use those semantics.

Zero. Zed. 0.

So, to me....if you are calling it THAT....it damn well better BE that. Or you are just flat-out...dishonest.

( I don't mean to rain on your parade, David...I always enjoy your willingness to sample and report on what is out there on the market at a given time....and there is a fair argument to be made that, even if the horn isn't REALLY a replica -as the hype claims - it may be a decent horn for the $ - which only time will tell, ultimately ).
 
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JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
Messages
1,993
In the comparison with his mk 6 it’s a much brighter horn, and that’s with a guy that is playing with a West Coast Desmond slant. With a softer, fluffier sound it will make far less difference from one horn to another imo. It doesn’t sound like a bad horn, in fact there’s nothing to dislike. The harder things to produce from a horn are the cracks and pops that an older horn like a 6 Might be more prone to do. If you don’t want to make those sounds it doesn’t matter. Making the Desmond-type sound is pretty easy (if you’re wired for it) on any sax imo.
A couple of comments from your observations. In my experience, if the horns do not sound identical, tonally, or damn, damn, damn close...then something in the design specifications is different from one another.

And...the harder things to (re)produce on a horn is the blowing response. ...and, of course, "feel".

Now....the fellow can play, and his 'explanation' video is very smooth and disarming....

"the sound (between the vintage and new horn) is almost identical in recordings"

"you cannot really hear any substantial difference"

again, what one would expect from a marketing push, but I always tend to focus on the firmness of semantics here, and....

well.....well....

I can hear a substantial difference in tonality. So if the horns sound different, then again I'd speculate (on reasonably terra firma) their design specs are NOT identical.

(now folks may be eye rolling a bit and be tempted to reply to me "oh, come ON, now, its a £750 saxophone...cut 'em a bit of slack, mate !"....However, while that is all perfectly true....don't call/market your £550Alto/£750 750 Tenor as a Selmer, France "replica"....if it isn't one, is basically my point).
 
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saxyjt

Saxus Circus Maximus
Subscriber
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4,317
As it's been mentioned before, the trouble with many Chinese made products is keeping the same level of quality over time. When you're Apple, you can afford teams of QA experts, but if you've made a deal for a limited number of products and you're not gonna be on their back to keep the quality up. It may just slowly go away.

One of my oldest friends worked for many years in Shanghai building a nuclear plant with the Chinese and he told me that the most difficult thing was that they questioned the agreements they had the day before each and every day. Including those related to security. All to move faster or cut down costs.

This attitude may be the reason why COVID-19 escaped from a lab in China...
 

jazzdoh

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,336
I think it must be difficult to copy the Mark VI sound because even if you put a dozen Mark VI's together they will sound different from each other but as far as this new Goldington goes most players will realise that its a cheap nice sounding sax for students or improving players and I wish the guy good luck in his venture.
 

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,104
( I don't mean to rain on your parade, David...I always enjoy your willingness to sample and report on what is out there on the market at a given time....and there is a fair argument to be made that, even if the horn isn't REALLY a replica -as the hype claims - it may be a decent horn for the $ - which only time will tell, ultimately ).
Rain away... it's not my parade. I only post things I spot, like this, for discussion and to make folks aware.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
Messages
1,993
If I were to keep on a critical view of these - I would offer that aesthetic details are easy and relatively cheap to copy. This is why there are so many supposed 'clones' which LOOK very much like their supposed original subjects.

I would like it more if a brand could show to a buyer that the body and neck specifications ...meaning the geometries of the tubes, tonehole diameters and placements, bow radius, keywork mechanics, etc....are what they had cloned, as opposed to the visual bells and whistles.
Then add to that the all-important precision of the assembly. Is there key play ? Are the point screws nicely, properly threaded ? Are they relying on heavier spring tensions to make the keywork behave ? Stuff like that...

I think it matters less to an owner if the keyguard, bell brace, ferrule flourishes do NOT match the original, as long as the important aspects of the design, do.
I'd guess, however, it is far easier to get an asian factory to do the opposite - copy stuff like bellbrace, thumb hook, pinky table shape, guards, etc...

Again, this isn't to say this is a crappy product. It might have attributes which make it a reasonable 550quid brand-new sax. As already mentioned by most folks here....only way to know is for someone to buy one, and have it assessed by a good tech.
 
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