Miscellaneous Music--Today v Yesterday

[ESJohn]

An article similar to this was on my computer this morning. It certainly causes one to think as to the current state of affairs as to music in general. Where do you think things stand today? Has is "dumbed down" as the article asserts? What is new out there, anyway? How does that affect musical instruments like the sax? Which direction do you think it is going?

Pop music really ain’t what it used to be – officially

But it is getting angrier.

metro.co.uk

 

[jonf]

I think this is a bit like every generation moaning about the youth of today - it's been going on since time immemorial. I was talking to my dad about this phenomenon last year, and he mentioned about how when he was a teenager, he was once told the youth of the day were soft and had never had it so good. It was 1945, the war had just finished and rationing was in force.

Same with music. Older generations tend to bemoan the music of the current day, looking back with hugely selective bias to make blanket statements about how things have deteriorated. That article, in a journal scarcely known for high quality journalism, has taken a very selective reading of a single piece of analysis to feed a negative headline (and the UK press is particualrly known for its negative perspective).

Some current music is simplistic crap. Some is also sophisticated, well crafted art. And in the past, lots and lots of popular music was absolutely terrible, literally forgettable, so of course we forget it and just remember the good stuff. Selective bias. Remember that manufactured boy band pop drivel was borne in the 1960s.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Pop music? Not really my thing, but it was mostly pretty dumb when I listened to it in the 50s and early 60s. I would not be remotely surprised to find that it was worse now.

However, manufactured pop is a very small subset of everything that is out there now, and all of it is easily accessible. There is vast amounts of new stuff out there but you're not going to be fed it by the main media. You have to look for it. Which, fortunately, is not really hard to do.

For instance, I came across this lot recently. I think the future for sax players is pretty bright.

View: https://youtu.be/FyR3vhL9YSc?si=OopMWWBs7B5dXcim

 

[ESJohn]

If you don't mind me mentioning "church music", I see a very simplistic approach to what is coming across the pike in the past few years. The traditional hymns of Fanny Crosby, Charles Wesley and others that have SATB voices incorporated into the playing and singing of such have been replaced by what a friend of mine calls "7-11" songs. Those are songs that include (tongue in cheek) the same 7 words repeated 11 times. There are no parts. Organ and piano have been replaced by guitar and drum.

In regards to popular music, one of our directors thinks that the music of Queen will be studied 500 years from now.
Back in my high school days of the early 70's, the Carpenters were very popular. I remember our band director saying that their music would be forgotten in a few years.

 

[Targa]

In regards to popular music, one of our directors thinks that the music of Queen will be studied 500 years from now.

Only if an alien race lands in 'hazmat' gear and wonders what these wierd noises are.

 

[Jimmymack]

I don't go out of my way to listen to pop any more the 60s ,70s and most of the 80s were my pop period. I'm sad to say that if something comes on the radio I haven't a clue who it is and mostly don't care. I was a bit dismayed recently when I heard what I thought was a turgid, boring bit of music and it turned out to be Radiohead, something from OK computer, so there you, go I'm certainly not in touch with the zeitgeist. I never much cared for Queen, except the music for Flash Gordon, but at least they were fun, and never dull. I think most current pop is manufactured pap.

 

[olds_cool63]

So much of today's music is made on the computer/phone/tabet and sounds like it. Not very good in my opinion (I sound like an old guy for a reason). The art of playing instruments is dying, which is why I still play many instruments (I refuse to take the easy route)....and learning more! Anyway, Motown, Funk, Soul, R&B, 60's-70's (classic, later hard) rock, 80's metal..those were the good times for me. Oh, yeah..and disco....always disco (the good stuff..think Donna Summer...big arrangements stuff)!
Nuff said.

 

[mrblackbat]

The issues with all these articles, thought pieces and so on, is they cherry pick. They'll pick the worst of current crop and the best of previous music.

You never see them mentioning "How much is that doggy in the window", "Popeye the sailor man" etc, the swathe of novelty songs in the 20s through 50s; compared to say Jacob Collier. Anything current that has interesting harmony or complexity will be dismissed as "not pop music", whereas the opposite will happen with tunes of yore.

 

[mrblackbat]

So much of today's music is made on the computer/phone/tabet and sounds like it. Not very good in my opinion (I sound like an old guy for a reason). The art of playing instruments is dying, which is why I still play many instruments (I refuse to take the easy route)....and learning more! Anyway, Motown, Funk, Soul, R&B, 60's-70's (classic, later hard) rock, 80's metal..those were the good times for me. Oh, yeah..and disco....always disco (the good stuff..think Donna Summer...big arrangements stuff)!
Nuff said.

As someone who works with electronic/computer music, it's just as hard, if not harder, to arrange and produce that music as it is to write a big band arrangement (which I also do write). It's definitely NOT the easy route.

 

[Pete Effamy]

As someone who works with electronic/computer music, it's just as hard, if not harder, to arrange and produce that music as it is to write a big band arrangement (which I also do write). It's definitely NOT the easy route.

Yes I agree, though you have a choice as to how paired down you want to go.

You are the whole band though, writer, arranger. Lots of skills there.

Big band charts can be easier as they are far less of a blank page - meaning that scoring for 5 saxes is relatively prescriptive rather than a lot of unorthodox pop music sounds.

These days though, you have to produce your own music too and that really is an acquired skill. Un-produced music just sounds like an old school demo.

 

[Ballymenaboy]

An article similar to this was on my computer this morning. It certainly causes one to think as to the current state of affairs as to music in general. Where do you think things stand today? Has is "dumbed down" as the article asserts? What is new out there, anyway? How does that affect musical instruments like the sax? Which direction do you think it is going?

Pop music really ain’t what it used to be – officially

But it is getting angrier.

metro.co.uk

I played in an Irish Showband in the 60s when I think the sax was largely seen as+a backing instrument for example Cliff Bennet and the Rebel Rousers and now I think saxes have taken on a more prominent role in today’s music scene

 

[TobyB]

There is some pretty excellent music being written and played now.

There were some real plops decades ago.

It's awfully hard to quantify if 'Pardon me boy, is that the chattanooga choochoo'
is any dumber than 'I wanna rock' when both are taken out of their time...

t

 

[jonf]

The art of playing instruments is dying, which is why I still play many instruments (I refuse to take the easy route)....a

No it's not, at least not in the UK. I have two daughters who fairly recently recently went through state secondary school (one is 19, the other 23). Whe I visited their school the music department was thriving, with kids keen to make music. It was certainly better funded with more decent quality instruments than during my own schooling.

 

[jonf]

I think most current pop is manufactured pap.

I agree with this, but I am also pretty certain that most historic pop, from the 50s onwards was manufactured pap.

 

[Jimmymack]

I agree with this, but I am also pretty certain that most historic pop, from the 50s onwards was manufactured pap.

This is very true. Sadly I can still sing quite a lot of them.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Modern music...what...like...bebop?

 

[Jimmymack]

Can't sing that.

 

[ESJohn]

These quotes from the article are what interested me the most:

"Dr Zangerle, from the University of Innsbruck, Austria, said: ‘While the use of longer words has increased in rap songs, general increases in the repetitiveness of lyrics across multiple genres has led to lyrics becoming simpler overall."

"Use of emotionally positive and negative words increased in rap songs, while the use of emotionally negative lyrics increased for R&B, pop and country songs,’ said Dr Zangerle."

 

[Targa]

These quotes from the article are what interested me the most:

"Dr Zangerle, from the University of Innsbruck, Austria, said: ‘While the use of longer words has increased in rap songs, general increases in the repetitiveness of lyrics across multiple genres has led to lyrics becoming simpler overall."

"Use of emotionally positive and negative words increased in rap songs, while the use of emotionally negative lyrics increased for R&B, pop and country songs,’ said Dr Zangerle."

I've only ever understood one word in rap songs and it's certainly used repetitively.

 

[wakyct]

I think this question (depth/complexity of music I guess in a nutshell) is most interesting to me considering young talent coming up. Both in the sense of what will appeal to them (would a Wayne Shorter or a John Coltrane today even be a jazz musician? Or a pop or hip-hop producer?) and what is available to support and develop their talent.