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M/Pieces - Ligs Looking for mouthpiece advice

D

David321321

 
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41
You’ve gone from a ESM 6* to an PPT 8* in a week based on reviews. Realize that the dominant character of a mouthpiece comes from its chamber, not its tip opening. You might be completely happy with a PPT 7*, and be better able to play it comfortably. It’s difficult to give you better advice, since we don’t know what else you’ve been playing in your 2 1/2 years.

G’luck in your quest.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't "go from a 6*" to anything based on reviews - much less in a week. I was looking for a 7* ESM jazz, and someone who plays that mouthpiece on the forum confirmed that it's a joy and was his main piece UNTIL he bought the PPT 8*. He still uses the ESM, but prefers the PPT. And that got me thinking.

Based on what Pete said and "openings not being standard" with PPT (or words to that effect), a PPT 8* sounds like a good choice. Also, based on Pete's description and the subtle diferences between the openings, I read, and understood that the 7* PPT won't be "bright enough" or dynamic enough (in my interpretation of what the differences are between a 7, 8 and 9).

For teh apst 2 1/2 years I've played (in the following order):

Bari Esprit x2 (one I opened and constantly modified with baffle inserts)
Link Tone Edge 7
Bari Hybrid 7
3 metal chinese mpcs 8* or 9* (Can't remember the names now, but the one's recommended by SirValorsax on his Youtube channel)
My last unbranded, high "ice cream scoop style" baffle HR - about a 7 as well.
and lastly the ESM 6* which I bought on a punt thinking to open it up, but decided on keeping it as and look for a 7*.

Along the way I've played so many different reed brands and strengths, that now I'm nearly 100% sure that Java Green (2.5) is what floats my boat (will drop to a 2 without any dent in pride in the mpc calls for it or want a quiet/"easier" blow. Although still open to suggestions.

Really, I'm not buying anything based on reviews. I'm moving closer toward the sound I'm looking for with each mpc purchase and enjoying the journey. I've also "settled on" wanting to try the PPT 8* as what I read resonates with me.

Thanks for the well wishes.
 
D

David321321

 
Messages
41
So, if I understand, you have all of 2 1/2 years playing experience, and you've got a mouthpiece you like but you want to change to a wider tip because some guy on the internet said "it feels better"?

If I tell you that a Meyer 8 on tenor feels better than any other mouthpiece I have, will you run out and buy one of them?

I'd suggest you pick one mouthpiece, one reed brand and strength, and focus on playing the horn.

I thought a lot about whether or not to reply to see post. Honestly, I don't understand the point of your comment. But, hey ho, free speech and all.

"All of 2 1/2 years" ? - There's so much wrong with this comment. I can hand on heart say that I've probably play more hours alone than most people have in twice that time. Not to mention doing my own refacing and working on reeds with a lot of "beginners" don't do. Also servicing my own horn. Again, not a beginner task.

Meyer 8? Well, you'd be the first, as I hear a lot of folks say Links for Tenor, Meyer for alto. Dude, you're not making any point here. If you said " I've played an ESM 6/7 and NOW I play a Meyer 8 and it feels better than the ESM for xyz reason, I would respond to you, get more info and MAYBE then run out and buys one. For now, no-one is running anywhere - I'm talking to people about their experiences and viewpoints - which is kinda the point of a forum, to chat and discuss, no?

"Suggest one mpc...reed brand and strength" - again, you are obviously not a teacher (of anything, let alone music) and don't understand how equiptment (the wrong or right) can affect someone's enjoyment of "playing the horn" (fyi, I am a teacher, and a music teacher).

Respond if you want, but surely, it would be better to weigh your words before running your mouth.

Kind regards.
 
D

David321321

 
Messages
41
David, I hope you are talking about working on reeds. Dont work on your mouthipiece if you dont know what you are doing. You will end up with a door stop. If you have some doorstops and the right tools you can practice messing with thiem.
I'm actually talking about both.

"Will end up with a doorstop"??? Or "might". Will is not a certainty in this case. Not knowing what I'm doing at all, is different from not knowing something about the process and playing/experimenting with it and learning from it.

You'll see from my mpc list that these aren't expensive mpcs, and I'm the kind of person who like to fiddle, learn and improve things for myself (if I can. I enjoy it and that's that).

But thanks for the advice. ;)

Not trying to sound like a know it all, and reading words without hearing inflections, seeing facial ecpressions, etc, can come across in a different way than intended. However, it does rub me up the wrong way when people talk in a way that sounds like "100% this will/will not happen, 100% of the time" when it's not true or before they have all the information about the person's situation.
 
Phil

Phil

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If you have tools and charts there is a chance. No tools, no charts 90 percent failure rate. If you want to learn the process there are resources and it takes a few tools. I have no idea what you have and dont have but you need a glass gauge and feelers in the least. Then some decent hobby files. There are online sites with facing curve numbers that work pretty well. Im not here to offend or not offend. Im just sharing information.
 
LostCircuits

LostCircuits

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When good advice falls on deaf ears, there is still a chance that the door stop will prevent the knob slamming into the wall.
 
Last edited:
T

turf3

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I thought a lot about whether or not to reply to see post. Honestly, I don't understand the point of your comment. But, hey ho, free speech and all.

"All of 2 1/2 years" ? - There's so much wrong with this comment. I can hand on heart say that I've probably play more hours alone than most people have in twice that time. Not to mention doing my own refacing and working on reeds with a lot of "beginners" don't do. Also servicing my own horn. Again, not a beginner task.

Meyer 8? Well, you'd be the first, as I hear a lot of folks say Links for Tenor, Meyer for alto. Dude, you're not making any point here. If you said " I've played an ESM 6/7 and NOW I play a Meyer 8 and it feels better than the ESM for xyz reason, I would respond to you, get more info and MAYBE then run out and buys one. For now, no-one is running anywhere - I'm talking to people about their experiences and viewpoints - which is kinda the point of a forum, to chat and discuss, no?

"Suggest one mpc...reed brand and strength" - again, you are obviously not a teacher (of anything, let alone music) and don't understand how equiptment (the wrong or right) can affect someone's enjoyment of "playing the horn" (fyi, I am a teacher, and a music teacher).

Respond if you want, but surely, it would be better to weigh your words before running your mouth.

Kind regards.
You don't even know what you don't know.

And the first of what you don't know is anything about me. However, I will point out that I've been playing the saxophone for over 40 years, in situations from loud electric bands to society bands to saxophone quartets to concert bands. So, yes, "all of 2 1/2 years" does apply. When I had been playing for all of 2 1/2 years, I too was still chasing chops in a box. You can choose whether to consider input from someone who passed that stage decades ago. Or you can choose not to.

I will tell you that my advice is to pick one good quality mouthpiece, one good quality brand of reeds, and get on with playing the instrument. That's going to remain my advice until you present a new different use case (for example, the player who's been playing 4th tenor in a big band and now needs to play in a loud electrified band, or a Rascher-influenced quartet).
 
D

David321321

 
Messages
41
If you have tools and charts there is a chance. No tools, no charts 90 percent failure rate. If you want to learn the process there are resources and it takes a few tools. I have no idea what you have and dont have but you need a glass gauge and feelers in the least. Then some decent hobby files. There are online sites with facing curve numbers that work pretty well. Im not here to offend or not offend. Im just sharing information.

In the 10% then. Didn't have feelers or a glass gauge and still didn't have a door stop.
 
Pete Thomas

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Didn't have feelers or a glass gauge and still didn't have a door stop.
That's great news!
You folks clearly stick together, while I get posts deleted.
Posts get deleted (as Colin himself may be able to confirm)
So much for freedom of speech going both ways.
It's a moderated forum so correct, no "freedom of speech" but we try to keep things nice with fair moderation.

let's everyone play nice, keep the thread on topic and on the rails. It is good thread.
 
Colin the Bear

Colin the Bear

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Opinions and experiences of the topic can be varied and interesting.
Opinions of other posters? Less so.
Yes I get posts deleted all the time. I blame my warped sense of humour.
Asking for advice about mouthpiece choice is bound to generate a multitude of of opinions, sincerely held and gathered over generations of wide ranging experience.
I like to read it all and filter out what I can use.
The depth of collective knowledge on this forum is vast. Some goes right over my head, some I find bleedin' obvious and some I disagreed with yesterday but agree with today and visa versa.
It can be overwhelming but I find the best way to process it all, is to take it all in and mull a while.
Reading and re reading replies before posting helps too.
 
LostCircuits

LostCircuits

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Asking for advice is one thing if it is done in a polite way. But asking for advice for the sole purpose of being controversial sheds a bad light on the poster. Everybody who has been trying to be helpful was literally kicked in the face with some sneer remarks regardless of the experience of the contributor. Just makes you wonder what the question was all about in the first place
 
Jimmymack

Jimmymack

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To be fair to the OP he didn’t really start it, he just overreacted to some comments.
 
jonf

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@David321321 My experience is that some people think it's counterproductive to change mouthpieces, some thinking that you have to 'pay your dues' on what they regard as a student mouthpiece for # years before making any change. Me, I am a non-conformist, I started playing on a Lawton 7 and have had over a hundred mouthpieces. I love playing music, and I also get enjoyment out of trying new kit. I say that if you fancy giving something a bit different a go, then go for it, just be prepared for it to not quite suit you. You can always sell on if you don't get on with something.
 
jthole

jthole

Member
Messages
262
I have a Jumbo Java. It's a a bit limited for me; good for lead tenor in a bigband, but not in a small combo. If you want bright, but still with a warm core, then it may work well for you.
 
allansto

allansto

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So I've read your article and this is a hard one.
IMHE it's hard to say what suits.
For example I've played about 10 different mouthpieces through the 12 years I've been playing. I liked them all.
At the time.
So a little while ago I bought a really expensive MP that I hadnt played before buying. A bit of a gamble. But I know one of the world's best players plays with one. So upon receiving it I played it and it was incredibly awesome. I thought my teacher would love it. I couldn't believe how fantastic this MP was.
So he could hardly play it. For him it was crap. I was astounded. The only way to select a mouthpiece as a newby especially, is to play it first. Unless you have lots of money.
 
E

eb424

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Thanks for the reply. I didn't "go from a 6*" to anything based on reviews - much less in a week. I was looking for a 7* ESM jazz, and someone who plays that mouthpiece on the forum confirmed that it's a joy and was his main piece UNTIL he bought the PPT 8*. He still uses the ESM, but prefers the PPT. And that got me thinking.

Based on what Pete said and "openings not being standard" with PPT (or words to that effect), a PPT 8* sounds like a good choice. Also, based on Pete's description and the subtle diferences between the openings, I read, and understood that the 7* PPT won't be "bright enough" or dynamic enough (in my interpretation of what the differences are between a 7, 8 and 9).

For teh apst 2 1/2 years I've played (in the following order):

Bari Esprit x2 (one I opened and constantly modified with baffle inserts)
Link Tone Edge 7
Bari Hybrid 7
3 metal chinese mpcs 8* or 9* (Can't remember the names now, but the one's recommended by SirValorsax on his Youtube channel)
My last unbranded, high "ice cream scoop style" baffle HR - about a 7 as well.
and lastly the ESM 6* which I bought on a punt thinking to open it up, but decided on keeping it as and look for a 7*.

Along the way I've played so many different reed brands and strengths, that now I'm nearly 100% sure that Java Green (2.5) is what floats my boat (will drop to a 2 without any dent in pride in the mpc calls for it or want a quiet/"easier" blow. Although still open to suggestions.

Really, I'm not buying anything based on reviews. I'm moving closer toward the sound I'm looking for with each mpc purchase and enjoying the journey. I've also "settled on" wanting to try the PPT 8* as what I read resonates with me.

Thanks for the well wishes.
Hi @David321321...Mouthpieces what a quandry huh... there seems to be 2 ways of approaching the topic...keep buying until you find what you are looking for or buy one and get on with it..I chose the prior but in my 5 years playing have had a few saxes to find what I am looking for...I am so happy to be settled finally on my set up...There is nothing wrong in my mind with either approach it's your journey..Whilst the cafe is a great place you will always get oppossing views that conflict your own and let's not forget that like texts unless said words can be taken out of context.. ;-) I have subsequently ended up with a few pieces some like the TW Durga played great on the TJ Raw but don't (IMHO) sound right on the Custom Z..So it will be moved on..I feel as long as your learning what you like from each piece i.e. baffle no Baffle, Large,medium or small, chamber, ebonite or metal you are working towards something..I tried for years playing large chamber link type pieces and have just gotten a v16medium chamber piece and love it...I know large chambers aren't for me...I do like a baffle though lol...With regards to the 6* piece you have if you like it that much it may be worth having it adjusted slightly another piece may not sound the same, but there again it may not sound the same if adjusted...the quandry continues..I have 2 pieces that I am thinking of having closed up, A TW Gaia, in an 8 and a Phil Tone impulse in an 8..I'm thinking of having them closed to one of Ed Pillingers special 7 (more like a 7*)...again I've learnt I have more control with a 7 or 7*..Ed can't do the work until July so I have been playing around with reeds and cramming lots of playing time in focusing on the pieces...I have suddenly found that with the right reeds both are great pieces...and may not need closing time will tell...I hope and know that you will find what you are looking for the irony is is it that you eventually find the right piece or that all the practice pays off...
 
Pete Thomas

Pete Thomas

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so I have been playing around with reeds and cramming lots of playing time in focusing on the pieces...I have suddenly found that with the right reeds both are great pieces...and may not need closing time will tell...
This is one thing I keep telling people. So often they rush to get a mouthpiece refaced before experimenting properly with different reed strengths and makes. Refacing is destructive in that if it doesn’t suit, you can never go back to what it was. Plus if it was original then the mouthpiece will lose resale value.
 
E

eb424

Senior Member
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2,247
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london
This is one thing I keep telling people. So often they rush to get a mouthpiece refaced before experimenting properly with different reed strengths and makes. Refacing is destructive in that if it doesn’t suit, you can never go back to what it was. Plus if it was original then the mouthpiece will lose resale value.
It's weird @Pete Thomas..I bought a TW Gaia (posted on here) I don't know what it is with TW but they never seem to "pop" with their own ligs only with Rovner but for me they muffle the sound. The table looked awful but the seller said it had been flattened always popped and played great but i returned it as I didn't think I could sell it on if it didn't suit...Now i'm in the same predicament lol..
 

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