Playing the saxophone Let's talk about "blue notes"...

[Pete Effamy]

I think a good way to say it is

• b3, b7 and b5 can be defined as blue(s) notes
• However, blue notes are very often intonation tendencies and can be anywhere between the non-flattened and (semitone) flattened versions of the 3rd, 5th and 7th.

Yes, good for textbook definitions, but it doesn’t cover regular chit chat, and to my mind, instances of repeated b3’s - either in a row or say;

5 6 1 b3 (G A C Eb) - repeating

If the b3 is sometimes bent and sometimes straight pitched, they’re still variants of a blues note (surely ?).

In fact, I don’t think it matters. The notes are the notes and the nuances are the nuances.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If the b3 is sometimes bent and sometimes straight pitched, they’re still variants of a blues note (surely ?).

Yes exactly my point.

You could say (given generically appropriate situations) all semitone flattened 3, 5 and 7 are blue notes, but not not all blue notes are (exactly) flattened 3, 5, and 7.

I just wanted to point out that to be a blue note it doesn't have to be microtonal intonation tendency.

 

[etc-etc]

Flatted thirds, fifths, etc. are NOT blue notes. They're flatted thirds, fifths, etc. They can be fully justified with standard Western harmony.

Blue notes are notes that could be called "microtonal" notes. They're most commonly seen at the third and fifth where they're a note partway between the minor and major pitch. This comes about from the same impetus as so many pentatonic practices, the feeling that half steps need to be avoided. If you have a major scale and play the major third, there's a half step to the fourth; if you play the minor third there's a half step to the second, so you play something in between.

One interesting difference between playing the blue notes on saxophone vs guitar is that on saxophone, it is easier to bend into a blue note by lowering the major pitch halfway (part-way) down to minor. On a guitar (unless it has a whammy / Bigsby bar, or is played with a Hawaiian slide), one can bend the note, raising from the minor pitch halfway (part-way) up to the major pitch, by pulling the string sideways.

 

[rhysonsax]

We had a good discussion about the "authenticity" of blues played by Sonny Rollins vs Sonny Stitt vs Dizzy Gillespie when they recorded "After Hours" for their 1957 album "Sonny Side Up".

I made an interesting discovery on YouTube just now. At the same recording session, Gillespie also recorded with each of the sax giants individually and there was an unreleased blues with Sonny Stitt (on alto) called "Anythin'". This later was a bonus track on the CD reissue of the Duets album.

View: https://youtu.be/qy2ZJAszJcU?si=9F0IMR_JX2SvvDdM


Same recording date, same rhythm section, but with Sonny Rollins on tenor replacing Stitt and here is "Sumphin'".

View: https://youtu.be/y0GN3iJ4EwY?si=YWybty_vrT99RvSg


To me, Stitt is just executing his Bebop thing on a set of blues changes, but Rollins has a real blues sensibility.

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

One interesting difference between playing the blue notes on saxophone vs guitar is that on saxophone, it is easier to bend into a blue note by lowering the major pitch halfway (part-way) down to minor.

Just found this slightly older thread that reminded me of a situation very relevant to this. I was in a section with two saxophones playing Have Love Will Travel. So we play the well known riff in unison with the guitars.

In this case the guitarist (possibly resenting saxophones) kept complaining we were phrasing it wrong. I mean the first note of the second bar of the riff. Listen to that note and let me know how you would make a unison with the guitarist as tight as possible? Bend? Grace note?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20S_kwNb4rg

 

[Pete Effamy]

Just found this slightly older thread that reminded me of a situation very relevant to this. I was in a section with two saxophones playing Have Love Will Travel. So we play the well known riff in unison with the guitars.

In this case the guitarist (possibly resenting saxophones) kept complaining we were phrasing it wrong. I mean the first note of the second bar of the riff. Listen to that note and let me know how you would make a unison with the guitarist as tight as possible? Bend? Grace note?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20S_kwNb4rg

From what I can hear on my phone (saxes back in mix) I’d say that you nailed it. Bend.

 

[Pete Thomas]

From what I can hear on my phone (saxes back in mix) I’d say that you nailed it. Bend.

I tried a few things. Total bend up a semitone or very close to one, grace note and bend combined or just a grace note. Nothing seemed to satisfy the pernickety guitarist.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I tried a few things. Total bend up a semitone or very close to one, grace note and bend combined or just a grace note. Nothing seemed to satisfy the pernickety guitarist.

There is only 1) bend / slide the note or 2) grace note.

He bends / slides. So then just a question of how fast the bend is and when it starts. Seeing as this is a short note anyway those ponderings don’t really apply

 

[thomsax]

Me like. Sounds great.