Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[Bernie]

How would that work ? confused

It wouldn't work, that's my point.

 

[Bernie]

I don't know St James's infirmary, so I will break it down into small chunks, yes, even at my ability, small chunks are easier FOR ME to learn.

If you don't know the tune, you can't play it by ear. So you will have to do it by a method that is NOT playing by ear. But we are trying to explain how to learn to play by ear. So it is a mistake to suggest a method which is NOT playing by ear.

 

[trimmy]

It wouldn't work, that's my point.

It's ok I'm awake now !

 

[Bernie]

Could you wake the rest of them up then?

 

[trimmy]

Could you wake the rest of them up then?

I slept alone

 

[Targa]

I slept alone

Please repost on ProfJames problem page.

 

[trimmy]

If you don't know the tune, you can't play it by ear. So you will have to do it by a method that is NOT playing by ear.

So how does a 'play by ear player' who cant read the dots (Taz/Bolding/Craig) learn new material ?
What is the other method

 

[Sunray]

Thinking this subject through - This has been "my own" approach in recent times.

Listen, Listen some more, and then some more ...

For most of the day and well into the evening I hear the piece of music I want to play "in my head" - "over and over" until I am reliably very familiar with it. [It becomes infectious - Just like an Ear-worm]. [Sometimes this process may take a few days - which I guess depends on how familiar I have been in the past with the music].

Then when I am ready to have a bash at it, I pick up my sax "Honk" and listen to the music [at the same time] - thus finding the first note, then play along for the first few bars - often getting it wrong to start with.

Once I have the first part in hand the rest becomes much easier and it really starts to flow. As @mpj.brennan said - my fingers just seem to know where they need to go at any given time. [I find this really fascinating]

An important note here: I find that the more familiar you are with your sax [I sort of treat it like its a part of me, an extension of my arms or hands - Its quite hard to explain] The easier it is to become immersed into the music you are are learning to play ...

I do make lots mistakes but learn from them. Its quite often that I have to work over and over on particular parts of the music to get it right.

I don't need, nor have the desire to seek out the dots ... unless I am really struggling to work out a certain part of the music for myself. [In truth I am reluctant to seek out the dots].

I won't say I get my rendition note perfect as the original player plays it but my version is certainly a very reasonable mimic of theirs.
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I will add that I am able to read from sheet music and I am continuously working to improve, as I would very much like to become much more proficient at this. I believe that this is an important skill "for me to learn" and which will enable me to play music on a range of different instruments. It will help me to better understand what others have written and give me much wider choices in the future.

I am not able to read and play at speed as yet, nor can I interpret an unknown [to me] piece just by looking at the score. [I had just 7 lessons when I first started playing sax, most of which solely concentrated on Music Theory]. I gave up on lessons to get to know my Sax and thus formed my approach as described here.

I can transpose "and write down the dots" by listening to a piece of music - but rarely bother as I prefer to just play it ...
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I believe I am still at the very beginning of my personal musical journey which I wish I had found when I was much so younger ...

Hey Ho ...

 

[Taz]

If you don't know the tune, you can't play it by ear. So you will have to do it by a method that is NOT playing by ear. But we are trying to explain how to learn to play by ear. So it is a mistake to suggest a method which is NOT playing by ear.

Sorry Bernie, but you are going to have to expand on this explanation. To my mind, I don't/can't read musical notes. I can hear a tune though. If I don't know a tune I will use my ear and listen to the tune. I will hopefully pick up bits of the tune (there are my small segments) I will then, using the ability to hear notes, find the notes on the sax and attempt to replicate the part of the tune that I have just listened to. How is that NOT playing by ear?

 

[Jeanette]

A question for Jeanette: would it have helped to have a recording of "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" to remind you of the melody or so that you could copy individual notes? If so, I'm sure that we could provide one.

That would be really useful. I think I've got the intervals for the second part but not sure I'm starting on the right note. However I was getting tired last night so will have another go tonight 🙂

Jx

 

[Bernie]

So how does a 'play by ear player' who cant read the dots (Taz/Bolding/Craig) learn new material ?
What is the other method

The method described rather well just now by Sunray is how I do it. Listen until the tune is in your head, then play it on the instrument. That's pretty much all there is to say about it, which is IMO why teachers don't talk about it much. There isn't much to teach, you just have to do it.

 

[trimmy]

So therefore you can play a tune without knowing it.....eventually

 

[Jonesy]

I put "Can only play from the dots".

The reason I don't "play by ear" is because until now I haven't really tried, I've been too busy trying to catch up to the standard of the ensembles I have played with.
And in the band I have to play the arrangement, so even if I knew the tune off by heart, either from the dots or by ear, that would not be a great deal of help, except maybe with rhythm and timing. (The only problem I have there is counting over long rests.)

The band has an ever-growing repertoire of about 50 numbers, and does a gig once a month playing 12 to 15 of them. Some of which I may not have even seen before the gig, or only had one opportunity to practise at band night, reading over someone's shoulder because I don't have a copy of the part.
example: Leader says, "We're going to do the Count Basie version of 'All Of Me' (thinks to self I haven't got that one, look at neighbour's copy) ... a 1 2 a 1 2 3 4", and we're away and I've just about had enough time to see what key we're in. I do the best I can at sight-reading but have to skip over some bits that I haven't deciphered, like speedy runs up and down in quavers and semiquavers with lots of accidentals.

Most of my practise time at home is learning my parts, and doing some scales and arpeggio exercises when time allows.
I've got plenty of great tunes/improvs/solos in my head, but I can't yet route them to my fingers.
I'm hoping that one day that connection will be made. One day ...

 

[Alice]

You can vote on two of the options

I didn't see that, thanks!

 

[Bernie]

Sorry Bernie, but you are going to have to expand on this explanation. To my mind, I don't/can't read musical notes. I can hear a tune though. If I don't know a tune I will use my ear and listen to the tune. I will hopefully pick up bits of the tune (there are my small segments) I will then, using the ability to hear notes, find the notes on the sax and attempt to replicate the part of the tune that I have just listened to. How is that NOT playing by ear?

The point I'm making is that this is not a good way for somebody to learn how to play by ear. You can already play by ear, so my point doesn't apply to you.

 

[richardr]

That would be really useful

Can anyone produce a very simple "Twinkle" and put it where Jeanette can get it in time for her session tonight, please? I could play it and record it but I don't have the know-how to get it on-line. This sounds to me like @Colin the Bear

 

[gladsaxisme]

I certainly know "Merrily We Roll Along" but I've never heard "Mary Had a Little Lamb" sung to it or any other tune. For me it was always a tuneless nursery rhyme, like "Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle...." Do you have a tune for that one as well?

It's funny because I have been thinking the same thing all along.of all the nursery rhymes to choose like jack and Jill Humpty Dumpty ole King Cole etc etc it's the one rhyme that I've always thought of as spoken rather than sung,think it goes something like this

Mary had a little lamb
She also had a bear
I've often seen her little lamb
But I've never seen her bear

 

[Bernie]

Can anyone produce a very simple "Twinkle" and put it where Jeanette can get it in time for her session tonight, please? I could play it and record it but I don't have the know-how to get it on-line. This sounds to me like @Colin the Bear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCjJyiqpAuU

 

[Bernie]

I've provided you with a Twinkle @richardr but I have to say I think this is the wrong approach, again. We choose nursery rhymes and the like because people already have them in their heads. If Jeanette doesn't have Twinkle Twinkle in her head already, then she should pick a different tune which she does know by heart.

 

[gladsaxisme]

How on earth can you learn by ear to someone singing in an American accent