Playing the saxophone "Learn the tunes so you don't need to (read) music"

[cappers]

Thank you for your kind words and advice @MikeMorrell

.... my 'notes' are always highly visual' (usually highlighted with a yellow marker) so that I can see at a glance what I need to be aware of (or remember) when I approach a certain section or bar

Some of my sheets look like a child's colouring book
Highlighted sections, repeats, codas, al sigs, chords, dynamics, the odd # and ♭ in different colours! It has helped me negotiate charts and new ones are far less confusing to me now.

But IMHO it's also good (now and then) to reflect back on what you've achieved within such a short period of time. And to take satisfaction from this!.

I set some basic goals when I started in January 2025 and to my surprise I have met most of them. As my wife said I've only been learning for a year and have achieved more than I realise.

This year I aim to improve my reading, fluency, articulation and voicing, hearing and playing by ear, and above all my tone and intonation. Plus deeper theory and musicality.

As an aside, I found some Klezmer modes e.g. D Freygish = D Phrygian with a major 3rd, and love them. I have eastern european ancestry and these scales resonate with me.

 

[thomsax]

My small notebook (A6), pensils and eraser are important tools when I listen to music. Try to follow the music with my sax ana the I just write down what's important to me. We used to play the blues "Fannie Mae" (Buster Benton) and I also found "Lonesome For A Dime". I liked it and wrote down what I thought was useful for me. The 12 bar blues is a lot easier than jazz ... .

 

[Pete Effamy]

My small notebook (A6), pensils and eraser are important tools when I listen to music. Try to follow the music with my sax ana the I just write down what's important to me. We used to play the blues "Fannie Mae" (Buster Benton) and I also found "Lonesome For A Dime". I liked it and wrote down what I thought was useful for me. The 12 bar blues is a lot easier than jazz ... .
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That’s perfect Thom - you’ve developed your own method and it works for you. Jazz is mainly different, but not necessarily harder. Broader I suppose, but in 12-bar you’re constantly trying to “burn” from the start of your solos to the end - same as pop solos: no mean feat in itself.

The people (like me) that moan on and on about reading music (or not) is when people want to do something that absolutely requires music reading / theory but think there’s a “get-around “ or a short-cut hack. It’s fine not to read music if it doesn’t affect you, but if you need it, you need it.

 

[JSL]

The people (like me) that moan on and on about reading music (or not) is when people want to do something that absolutely requires music reading / theory but think there’s a “get-around “ or a short-cut hack. It’s fine not to read music if it doesn’t affect you, but if you need it, you need it.

Yeah, there really are no short-cuts. As to "reading/theory", I'd say you'll need reading in order to read music (obviously), but not music theory to 'read the dots'. You will need at least some theory in order to improvise effectively.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Not necessarily. Some of the old guys I play with, don't read or know musical theory. They have excellent ears for melody and harmony. I often get a blank look when asking what key.

My ear isn't good enough to get by on its own. Some pieces baffle me and a lead sheet with chords helps me see what I can't hear.

 

[JSL]

Not necessarily. Some of the old guys I play with, don't read or know musical theory. They have excellent ears for melody and harmony. I often get a blank look when asking what key.

My ear isn't good enough to get by on its own. Some pieces baffle me and a lead sheet with chords helps me see what I can't hear.

Those 'old guys' do know certainly the chord changes & song form by ear. "Melody & harmony is music theory, whether or not it's written out on a chart.

And yeah, nothing wrong with using a chord chart on a tune where you don't already know the chord progression well. Once you do know it, and can hear it, the chart is no longer necessary. Even on a tune I don't know, I've found I can hear and identify the changes if they follow a standard form or are familiar, commonly used chords or chord movements like V-I, I-IV, II-V, III-VI-II-V, etc. Your 12-bar blues chart you wrote out is accurate and once you know those changes in 12 keys, you won't need to write them out anymore.

Reading music, the actual notes of a melody rather than chords, requires no knowledge of the music theory behind those notes. You simply have to be adept at reading the notes and rhythms, a skill which does take practice.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Yeah, there really are no short-cuts. As to "reading/theory", I'd say you'll need reading in order to read music (obviously), but not music theory to 'read the dots'. You will need at least some theory in order to improvise effectively.

Yep. Amazing to think that to play in a top symphony orchestra you need nothing in the way of harmonic knowledge.

 

[JSL]

Yep. Amazing to think that to play in a top symphony orchestra you need nothing in the way of harmonic knowledge.

Not exactly what I said. Harmonic knowledge is always useful, and any professional musician will have plenty of that knowledge. But in order to read the notes off a page, it is not absolutely necessary to know the chord progression or anything about music theory as you do in order to improvise a coherent solo. That's not to say it can't be useful to understand the musical structure behind what you are reading off the page.

I mainly brought this up in response to the myth that playing by ear (improvising) is accomplished with no knowledge of harmony, chord progressions, or song form.

 

[skeller047]

“Music” is making noises in a structured way. “Theory” is describing what the structure is. Theory always happens after the fact, while music is of the moment.

“When you hear music, after it’s over, it’s gone in the air. You can never capture it again.” - Eric Dolphy, on his recording “Last Date”.

@Pete Effamy - I think most symphony players have studied at college, where I understand they insist you know something about harmonic structure. Having said that, I actually agree that having that specific knowledge is of no use in playing the parts, but it may be of some use in interpreting the part. The old saying about familiarity breeding contempt doesn’t really apply in music, as familiarity deepens understanding, especially when it comes to music theory.

Bottom line, “theory” is nothing more than a syntax and vocabulary about understanding the structure of music. Whether you use the traditional version or make up your own is of no matter; it’s the deeper understanding that counts.

 

[JSL]

Bottom line, “theory” is nothing more than a syntax and about understanding the structure of music. Whether you use the traditional version or make up your own is of no matter; it’s the deeper understanding that counts.

Well said, Steve. You stated it better than I could have. But I'll add that in the definition of 'theory' I include the knowledge of chords, scales, 12 keys, chord progressions, song form, etc. All I can go on is my own experience. As a kid, I was taught to read music and could do that passably well. But then when I wanted to improvise & play by ear, I found early on that even when improvising over the most basic blues, I needed to know the I-IV-V 12-bar structure, how to play a dominant chord, the 'blues scale', and how to play in a specific key. IOW, while playing by ear I had to have some idea of what I was doing. I call all of that part of "music theory." But maybe I'm stretching the definition too far.

 

[skeller047]

But I'll add that in the definition of 'theory' I include the knowledge of chords, scales, 12 keys, chord progressions, song form, etc.

True this. I was merely saying that theory is like the skeleton of music. You are saying that to understand the skeleton, you need to understand bones, ligaments, etc. To say nothing of muscles and skin….

The deeper and more detailed your understanding, the better your fully clothed performance will sound.

(I will drop this analogy now…)

 

[Targa]

True this. I was merely saying that theory is like the skeleton of music. You are saying that to understand the skeleton, you need to understand bones, ligaments, etc. To say nothing of muscles and skin….

The deeper and more detailed your understanding, the better your fully clothed performance will sound.

(I will drop this analogy now…)

Just put your heart into it.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Well, I am talking about nearly 40 years ago when I rubbed shoulders with orchestral players so things might have changed - but I don’t think that conservatoire instrumentalists got much of an education in harmony beyond Bach Chorales and iii - vi - ii - v7 in a very basic form ie not really going into four or five note chords other than dominants.

A friend of mine has a PhD in early music and was an O level music teacher and good pianist. She has very little harmonic knowledge.

And yes, whilst more knowledge can never be a bad thing, knowledge of harmonic movement in an orchestral piece does not inform your playing as a flautist or clarinet player. You play to and within the phrases and over the mood / colour of what has been created around you. I think that it’s far more about the linear aspect than the vertical. Bear in mind that your playing in an orchestra changes very little depending upon whatever is happening in the music.

Unlike say, big band where you need to recognise parts of a chord that would be bent (possibly) more often than not - blue notes etc.

 

[thomsax]

Another good thing to have a notebook you can write/draw down things that is useful for me. "Lonesome For A Dime" notes was the same days that I did some "Springsteen" recordings and I also found an insteresting way to merge wood without glue (it works, very strong). The 5th of May 2020 was a very cold "early summerday", that's why I wrote down the Mark Twain lines. May 2020, the pandemic made the day even colder. Frank , my friend's black labrador, was also in the woodshed resting on blanket. Frank was 14 in 2020, tired and we just took short walks ... it was so hard to take the decision ... he was the last link to our friend who passed away three years earlier. A note book helps me to play sax, carpentry ..... it's just another form of "theory". I could probaly learn more music theory, so I could take jazz, big band, blues, Rock & Roll gig, read and play in all 12 keys, do some low paid "gigs", having a slice of pizza on a frigolit plate and can of beer as part of my pay ....

Here is more from the note book, a "bluish" picture. After a clear and cold night the sun shines from a bright blue sky. Maybe not the best day for a blues?

 

[Pete Thomas]

A friend of mine has a PhD in early music and was an O level music teacher and good pianist. She has very little harmonic knowledge.

But probably a bigger knowledge of polyphony? She may well know my wife (Prof Laurie Stras) who is a well known (I believe) early music scholar, albeit the term early music cover quite a range of specialist era.

You play to and within the phrases and over the mood / colour of what has been created around you.

Yes I think that is very much the case, but no doubt some exceptions.

 

[Pete Effamy]

But probably a bigger knowledge of polyphony? She may well know my wife (Prof Laurie Stras) who is a well known (I believe) early music scholar, albeit the term early music cover quite a range of specialist era.

Yes undoubtedly. And counterpoint.

At conservatoires I think it was the composers that really got into harmony in a big way.

Maybe it’s the old case that music is so vast, especially if you’re trying to advance instrumental skills too.